Be kind neophite first site.... (Full Version)

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GMisner -> Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 1:29:00)

http://www.troop245.com

This is my first effort at a page.

Given other reviews I am adequately braced..... [sm=unsure.gif]

Thanks



womble -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 4:39:22)

Hi, and welcome to OF!

First impressions are a good first atempt. The first thing I'd do though is sharpen up the images, including your top banner, which I'd make more prominent. The quality of images on a site can do a lot to improve a site. A lot of your images are quite blurred and pixellated. Personally I'd ditch the animated gifs - IMHO animated gifs rarely do anything to improve a site.

Perhaps you could try getting more of the red from the top banner into the colour scheme to tie the site together.

On your navigation, personally I'd take off the underlining which would make the menu much clearer. For some reason the 'home' item seems smaller than the rest and I found it quite disconcerting that the menu items got smaller when I hovered over them.

The 'suggestion box' I think would be better not on the menu, or be a link to a separate page where you can email from. I wasn't expecting Outlook to open when I clicked on that one. You've also some pages opening in different windows which meant at one point I'd about 5 windows open, and some of the links from other pages back don't seem to be working. You've also got a number of different font sizes on different pages. For consistency, you're best sticking with a consistent style across the whole of a site.

You've got the beginnings of a good site there though. [:)]



GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 9:34:12)

Womble,

Thanks for the input. I will work immediately on the fonts, etc.. "Never noticed the home but your right"

The top banner was given to me by someone else....
I will see if I can clean it up.

As to opening multiple windows. I was looking for screen space adults page etc... Is there a better way to approach this?.

Thanks again.

Gary M.




womble -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 13:55:42)

quote:

As to opening multiple windows. I was looking for screen space adults page etc... Is there a better way to approach this?.


Probably me being a bit dense - getting late in the day, but i'm not sure I understand the question.

Actually, I've just taken a look at your code and realised you're using frames [img]http://www.ecanus.net/forumsmiles/duh.gif[/img] (I told you it was getting late in the day and I'm not concentrating properly! [:D]) (potentially an accessibility problem, but a discussion best reserved for the accessibility forum). On some of the links in the menu though, you have for example <a target="_blank" href="../Handbook/Handbook.htm">. It's the target="_blank" that's causing a new browser window. That in itself can be a problem, partly because you end up with loads of windows open, but also from an accessibility point of view (for example for screen reader users who suddenly find themselves on another page) - your other problem though is that after being whisked off to a new page, on some of the pages the navigation seems to be broken, so you've no way of getting back to where you started from.



RickP -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 15:48:21)

Hi Gary

Here's a second opinion... I agree with the first![:D] (both the 'good' and the 'could be improved' points)

My main down is that I'm instantly lost when it comes to the navigation links (sorry!). I suggest all one colour or one size or one something so that it clear what are links and what is plain text. And, going on from there, under "Scoutmaster" it says "Tom Lee" - I wondered if it was a link - it was - but to my surprise it didn't give me any info about Mr Lee it just opened my email client. So, it is not too clear, what are links and what is not, and, it is not obvious what one is going to be getting when someone clicks the link.

This is just some added constructive (I hope) criticism you understand. On the plus... I think you've kept it simple and ungarish, which is hopeful for a first - just tighten up what you've got on the home page and keep the rest consistent with clarity.



GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 16:06:35)

Womble,

I re-worked a couple of the pages and will build links back to the main page in them.

I will review the accessibility forum for info on frames.

Experienced feedback is fantastic.....[:D]

Thanks for the input again.



GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 16:10:04)

Rick,

I was thinking of changing all the navigation menus to be buttons. I figured out how to do this on the handbook.
( I know ... 6th graders have been doing this for years[>:])

Would that clear it up or should I look to other options.

Thanks for the valuable (definitely constructive) input.

Gary M



RickP -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 16:18:18)

quote:

I was thinking of changing all the navigation menus to be buttons ... Would that clear it up or should I look to other option


Yep, graphic buttons are one way to do it, so long as you keep it consistent throughout all pages on the site. Text links are fine too, and in fact have some advantages over graphic links if you're thinking about search engines and all (big subject!). Text is simple and quicker to do too BUT... you must 'somehow' make it instantly clear to visitors that 'these are links' and 'this is content'.



womble -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 16:27:54)

quote:

I was thinking of changing all the navigation menus to be buttons.

Don't forget if you're going to use images as buttons, they need an alt tag too [;)]



GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 18:59:14)

Alt tag???

I have buttons on the handbook. are they done right...

Thanks




GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/2/2005 21:31:48)

Womble,

I reworked the page.
Let me know what you think now.[sm=unsure.gif]

Warning. I still have frames but I will look at other options for that Next.[sm=whistling.gif]

Thanks again.



d a v e -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/3/2005 1:07:11)

just to add to the critiques with some image advice :)

the large pic of the boy scouts hasn't been resampled - it's been resized (possibly in Frontpage) so you need to resize the picture and save/exportr it in a graphics editor or after resizing in FP then press the resample button (image toolbar i think) so it reduces the file size (otherwise it's a big pic displayed as a smaller one!)

try the attached (25k) i removed the light patch on the wall above the boy's head on the left :)

also use underscores_between_filenames and not spaces as youmay run into problems otherwise. (also avoid using , in filenames as well!)

oh and the header image could be smaller and clearer as a gif try re-exporting/resaving from the original

[image]local://upfiles/5827/0AD1BD236B574620B49279E0A89429EA.jpg[/image]



GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/3/2005 1:24:26)

Dave,
Thanks for the input.

Does the Resample button change the resolution of the underlying file, or is it just the display on the Page.

I am getting pictures form users who send them to me.
In most cases I crop the picture to reframe the shot and resize. Using HP image zone. My goal is to have pictures that people could print if they want. What is a happy medium for file size in this application.[sm=ask.gif]

BTW, Spaces are me being lazy on my to do to clean up.
The commas came to me from users. Same thing I guess but someone to blame there....[8|]

Thanks again
Gary M.



d a v e -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/3/2005 1:31:34)

changing the size in FP will display a pic of say 800 x 600 px (at 200kb) at for e.g. 400 x 300px (but still at 200k) using resample will actually resize the picture itself to 400 x 300px and the filesize will therefore be reduced as well.

aim for about 50k as a page maximum, including stylesheets, javascript, images, html etc, though for your kind of site that i imagine will ba a a bit heavy on the photos then around 100k a page shouldn't be too much of a burden for those on dialup and other slower connections

if you want people to be able to print then i would link to a larger original image for them to see (just link directly to the larger image file) and use a reasonable amount of compression on the smaller image - it just takes a little bit of practice to get a good trade off between image quality and dowload time :)



GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/3/2005 1:41:23)

Dave,

Got it.... Thanks!

Gary M.



womble -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/3/2005 12:58:28)

Hi Gary,

Much better with the nav, though personally I'd make the whole of that top banner and nav buttons a little bigger. Possibly you could try changing the button colours to tie in with the banner colours a little more. I just feel with the grey background they don't 'stand out' very well.

For some reason everything now seems a little squished over to the left, though that may be my monitor. [;)]

Alt tags are a short text description of whatever the image is - for example for the 'home' button your alt tag would be 'home', for 'caldendar', 'calendar of events' etc., and you need alt tags on all your photos as well. The alt tag is displayed if your image doesn't load for any reason, and is read out by screen readers.
The html would be <img src="image.gif" height="10" width="50" alt="home button" /> or something like that. You're using FP right? You can easily put alt tags in in FP by double-clicking on the image in design view, which brings up the 'picture properties' window. Click on the 'general' tab, and type your alternative text in the 'text' field in the middle of the window.



GMisner -> RE: Be kind neophite first site.... (9/3/2005 14:51:14)

Womble,

Your monitor is fine. I think everything is squarish. I just rearranged the pages in a different frame....[:o]

I will get to doing different buttons etc...I have not figured out a way to change the color of the images within Front page. I picked gray as it did not clash with my color scheme...

Thanks for all the valuable input!!!

Gary M.




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