I think I need a consultant (Full Version)

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Thomas Brunt -> I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 11:51:37)

I don't have any problem getting subcribers to OutFront News, but I sure do have a major problem keeping my newsletter messages from getting rejected as spam.

There is so much to know and so much to do when it comes to ensuring that newsletter messages get through to subscribers. It seems as though there should be a service available that can take care of that hassle for me.

Has anyone heard of such a thing?

t




BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 12:26:33)

First, I experience the same problem all the time from AOL. A user will have an account setup, and an e-mail account being forwarded to his/her AOL address. Whenever they get spam, they mark the forwarded messages (that appear to be coming from MY server instead of where they came from), and then my server gets blacklisted.

Here is what I would do to help fix the problem:
() Request all new signups to send a confirmation e-mail. Similar to forum signups, you need to click a link in your e-mail address to validate it.
() Send out an e-mail to each new signup, and tell them the problem with marking messages as spam.



Thomas Brunt -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 12:29:38)

That's one of about 15 issues that I deal with. It's not anywhere near that simple.

t



BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 13:00:05)

How are e-mails rejected by spam if it is not coming from users sending spam reports?



nickhurd -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 13:05:12)

Do you have reverse DNS set up for your mail server? If not this can be a big source of your emails being rejected.

Nick Hurd
<edit>Please keep links in signature.</edit>



_gail -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 13:08:18)

quote:

I sure do have a major problem keeping my newsletter messages from getting rejected as spam.


I don't know of any consultant but I'm honestly to the point were I no longer worry about it because there seems little I can do. Most, though not all, of my returns are from AOL users, and I gave up after hours of frustration trying to reason with the, er, AOL postmaster, or whatever you call it.

What I have changed it that no one can subscribe to my newsletter simply from a form on a page. Every subscribe link brings potential subscribers to a single page where they can't help but read the included message that they need to adjust their spam filter. That puts the the subscriber on notice that if they don't receive the newsletter, it's out of my control.

I get about a 4-8% return when I send out the newsletter each month. That's an amount I can live with.

Though there are exceptions, most returns now go unopened into the trash. I used to spend a couple of hours and go through each and individually contact the subsciber (note to self: get a life), but even a number of those messages were rejected by aol because of the same domain name in my personal email address (even though I use a different name for the newsletter).

I've tried my best. If subscibers don't receive my newsletter and think my site is worth it, my guess it that they'll be back.

btw, Tom, aren't you using RSS too and, if so, is it going well?



BigBlue -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 14:10:41)

I suggest checking out Constant Contact (www.roving.com). They offer list services, which you may not need or want, but they have a lot of experience dealing with getting opt-in email delivered with a lot of useful information and how-to material. You may have to register to gain access to the material, but they offer a free trial.

I used to use them for a newsletter that I send out, but it got a little pricey. If you can justify the cost, I highly recommend them.



BigBlue -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 14:12:46)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nickhurd

Do you have reverse DNS set up for your mail server? If not this can be a big source of your emails being rejected.
How do I know if I've done this, and why does it make a difference?



Mojo -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 14:23:45)

Have you ran the newsletter past SpamAssassin? - http://spamassassin.apache.org/

Here is a list of the tests SpamAssassin runs. Reading through it may give you some ideas:
http://spamassassin.apache.org/tests_3_0_x.html

Here is an article on Wired, it's kind of basic, but others may benefit from it - http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,61945,00.html

That's the end of my ideas... I quit bulk email a couple years ago.




cookcomm -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 14:28:01)

Hi Tom,

I faced the same problem with my 1,500-subscriber newsletter, Publishing New Writers.

My solution was to make the newsletter most like an academic publication. After all, the spam control programs don't want to block Harvard Business Review, etc.

So I now refer to my newsletter as a periodical. It could equally be a journal. I carefully avoid referring to it as a newsletter. And now it's only blocked by one or two individuals who decide to opt out in any given month, which is fine.

How about... Outfront Journal (Sounds kind of neat, doesn't it?)

Now about that consulting fee...[:D]



winter -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 15:32:32)

Hi Thomas

i am using Constant Contact for a list of about 1500 users. We do get a number of returns but it turns out that they are mostly from an ISP call road runner who has identified our domain with a spam list. Digging further i found out we are on that list because our web host, has an open relay set up - which i guess lends itself to spammers. So by association our email is being rejected by that isp ( and that because of our domain address) .

Constant Contact staff are always going to bat where they can to get the mail to go through.

That said, constant contact does have all the latest in spam awareness and for how to write a newsletter that will get through. For example, they don't allow use of the use of trailing periods....... or !!!!! Having your mailing address, contact information, sentence on why you are receiving this email, and how to not get one again,... are part of the stardard set up features.

Best of luck. Crack the code on this and you will be an in-demand consultant yourself!

Carolyn



DWS -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 16:47:48)

09212005 1517 GMT-5

There is one newsletter that I could not get no matter what I tried. I finally called the email host, not the ISP, and asked them to look into it. What they finally found was, this newsletter was being sent out from a Bell South sever and they, my email host, blocked that server from sending anything to their clients because they, Bell South, has so many spammers that they will not police. Well, that sucks because I actually want! this newsletter.

I then changed the address for the newsletter to my yahoo account and they couldnt send to them either. I thought - what is up with that! I emailed yahoo after checking the few things I could and after several days they responded with almost the same answer.

I contacted the guy with the newsletter and he is (and rightfully so) pretty pissed about this. Im not the only one not getting his newsletter. And similar to you, he didnt know what to do either.

The one thing I can offer to you is this: I recall reading a server journal about companies blocking email based on headers.

This is your header:
From - Wed Sep 21 11:08:07 2005
X-Account-Key: account2
X-UIDL: 1127318708.716581.smtp01.prod.mesa1.secure.4097412016
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Received: (qmail 29615 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2005 16:05:08 -0000
Received: from pre-smtp02-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net ([64.202.166.26])
(envelope-sender <bounce-outfront-news-8920560@laser.sparklist.com>)
by smtp01-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
for <wade@wadesmart.com>; 21 Sep 2005 16:05:08 -0000
Received: (qmail 28965 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2005 16:05:08 -0000
Received: from laser.sparklist.com ([64.62.197.110])
(envelope-sender <bounce-outfront-news-8920560@laser.sparklist.com>)
by pre-smtp02-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
for <wade@wadesmart.com>; 21 Sep 2005 16:05:07 -0000
X-Mailer: Lyris ListManager Web Interface
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:04:15 -0700
Subject: OutFront-News 09-21-05
To: "wade@wadesmart.com" <wade@wadesmart.com>
From: "Thomas Brunt " <thomas@thomasbrunt.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-outfront-news-8920560M@laser.sparklist.com>
Reply-To: "Thomas Brunt " <thomas@thomasbrunt.com>
Message-Id: <SPARKLIST-8920560-3919442-2005.09.21-09.05.03--wade#wadesmart.com@laser.sparklist.com>
X-Nonspam: None

Now, of what I can remember from the article, they look for look at envelope-sender and match that against previously known spammers. Yours is sparklist.com and I just whent there. Maybe your newsletter is blocked because of some spammers from their domain in the past.

I know one guy with about 1200 listees moved away from his hosting company and used a piece of software that he had created just for him because of the problems with his newsletters not reaching him.

Wade



Thomas Brunt -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 17:01:38)

The main problem with any shared list hosting service like sparklist or contant contact is that spammers get banned by their IP. That means everyone on the same IP as the accused spammer gets banned.

Any shared list host is going to have clients who get accused of spam because just about anyone who send out mailings gets accused of spam from time to time whether or not she/he actually ever does anything remotely resembling spam.




BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 17:07:16)

Tom. I still don't understand the other 14 issues. How are e-mails rejected by spam if it is not coming from users sending spam reports?



DWS -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 19:58:39)

09212005 1842 GMT-5

The email isnt been seen as spam Mr. Douglas, but the sender is. Its not Outfront who is sending the email, its the list service. They are the ones who are being seen as spam, not the email it self.

Wade




BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 21:56:28)

The mailserver is blacklisted, thus meaning the message is marked as spam. It is blacklisted because of people who report these e-mails as spam.

Once the mailserver is blacklisted, most e-mails are going to be shown as spam.
.........

So Tom, the problem is that the place you are using to send mail, is always getting blacklisted; the problem isn't that your users report the newsletter as spam, it is the other people who are using the mailserver that are getting it blacklisted?



keira19 -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/21/2005 23:57:15)

So can't you just create an email application in coldfusion or php etc (it is really easy in coldfusion I hear) and just have all the users in a SQL database or something???



BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/22/2005 11:48:37)

What would that do that is different?



DWS -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/22/2005 14:34:21)

09222005 1320 GMT-5

I think what keira19 was saying is, if you create your own email service then it comes from your own domain and therefore possibly the email wouldnt be blocked.

However, it still might be because filtering software have lots of variables on what a spam is or is not. Also, there is the consideration of the bandwidth usage that you would instantly have.

Wade



Spooky -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/22/2005 16:24:48)

If you created your own application, you would still get the issue of users reporting you as spam (ignorance, malicious intent). So rather than the service provide getting blacklisted, now you will be too.



Thomas Brunt -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/22/2005 22:34:21)

quote:

So Tom, the problem is that the place you are using to send mail, is always getting blacklisted; the problem isn't that your users report the newsletter as spam, it is the other people who are using the mailserver that are getting it blacklisted?


If I had time to monitor that regularly then I could tell you. That's why I was saying that I wanted a consultant.

The problem isn't just blacklisting although I said that it was. I didn't actaully mean that.

You can get filtered out because of words used in your message such as "free." The list of banned words varies from system to system and changes every day.

Another problem is the huge rate of email address abandonment.

Another problem is autoresponders clogging my mailbox.

That's all the problems I can think of right now. I'm sure there are more, however. Perhaps I exagerated when I said 15. I just felt that your solution was a gross oversimplifcation that seemed to assume I have no experience in the industry and have very little idea what I'm doing. I've grown a mailing list from 0 to over 15,000. I'm no expert in the area, but I'm not a complete dolt either.

t



Thomas Brunt -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/22/2005 22:36:50)

quote:

Tom, aren't you using RSS too and, if so, is it going well?


It's going OK, but it will be a long time before I can expect the rss feed following to rival the email following. I'm not sure that will ever happen, but I do hope it will.

t



BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/23/2005 4:07:32)

(working on 4 hrs of sleep, sorry about spelling errors, hope this makes sense)

Well Tom, everyone goes through different things with different user groups. I've had to deal a lot with spam prevention so my mailserver isn't blacklisted. While doing that, I have learned a lot about fixing issues like what you have.

quote:

If I had time to monitor that regularly then I could tell you. That's why I was saying that I wanted a consultant.

- I'd be happy to take a look at things on the server level to give you some useful tips.

quote:

You can get filtered out because of words used in your message such as "free." The list of banned words varies from system to system and changes every day.

- Since it varies from server to server, there isn't a standard word list you can compare to. If there was, spammers would use it to get around it. The main problem will be with sending mail to ISPs, as they tend to have a wider group of restrictions. Most hosts will simply use RBLs to filter out the spam, and use very little word filtering.

quote:

Another problem is the huge rate of email address abandonment.

- Ah! A fix for this is to have the newletter remove e-mail addresses that send the failed message (554, 550, 421 error codes, depending on if you have a fail setup).

quote:

Another problem is autoresponders clogging my mailbox.

- A fix for this would be to either setup the newsletter address to :blackhole so that all mail is deleted.

quote:

I just felt that your solution was a gross oversimplifcation that seemed to assume I have no experience in the industry and have very little idea what I'm doing. I've grown a mailing list from 0 to over 15,000.

- That wasn't my intention at all. I'm, fairly new to all of this stuff.

If you have issues with the mailserver being blacklisted, you can simply change the IP address of the mailserver to send out your newsletter. (Which should only take a few minutes)

-----------

Also, if you take alook at SA in Mojo's post, you can see how that is used to detect spam. Here is an example output:
mrbobswebdesign com/output.txt



Thomas Brunt -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/23/2005 8:46:00)

quote:

Also, if you take alook at SA in Mojo's post, you can see how that is used to detect spam.


I did look at Mojo's post. I'm aware that he is an expert. There are some other very helpful posts on this thread that I have looked at very seriously.

quote:

I'm, fairly new to all of this stuff.


Yes. You are. Which is why your arrogant attitude is so laughable.

t



BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/23/2005 13:04:44)

quote:

Yes. You are. Which is why your arrogant attitude is so laughable.

- Every problem you listed, I provided a solution for it. I even talked to one my of my admins to see how long it would take to change a mailserver IP (in case it was blacklisted).

But, I see you have no appreciation for my thoughts, so I'll leave this thread alone.

Goodluck figuring out your problem. I am sure you will be able to update everyone with what you did in this thread that worked.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/23/2005 15:00:32)

My apologies Tom. I wasn't trying to make myself look like a guru by providing solutions. I thought you were simply looking for solutions, but now after I re-read your post, it appears you just want a consultant to do it.

It seems like everyone is providing solutions, thinking that it will help. [&:]



caz -> RE: I think I need a consultant (9/24/2005 5:46:18)

This outfit appear to do consulting by phone or on site http://www.wilsonweb.com/consult/?aboutus and have you thought about asking pageoneresults? Of course you have...[:)]



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