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RickP -> Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 17:19:17)

Just finishing of a site here

Two things I am already aware of (make that three!)

1. Animation warning! - there is some simple gif animation, many here don't like it I know but the client requested it specifically (actually wanted flash but I thought the gifs worked better for this and the client is happy[:D]). Should they be speeded up a little though?

2. Some of the photos on the 'signs' pages are poor - tried my best with the originals but they're the best we have for now.

3. I need to validate my CSS sheet 100% - manyana!

Apart from that, any observations very welcome - thanks


edit P.S. If anyone can explain/help with a small problem on my nav bar please say on... The rollover effect should occur when the mouse goes over the cell area of each link - and it does in every browser tested so afr except IE (6). With IE... weird!... It works on the first cell but with all the others the effect is only triggered when the mouseover reaches the text! ? any ideas!?[8|]



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 17:49:21)

Very impressive!

The only thing I would sort out is the signage pic which is used as a link on BESPOKE SIGNAGE

The full size one is clearer.

I took the liberty of pulling that into Photoshop, resizing it to the link image and managed to reduce the size a bit in the process.

[image]local://upfiles/9075/EA98671226524D79B8EFC4C1E32759BC.gif[/image]



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 17:51:48)

quote:

any ideas!?:)


Blow up IE?



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 18:01:18)

Ooooh I found a funny

Right down the bottom there's a link that says "sites". You click it and you get a page that says

otwn sites

HUH?[sm=ask.gif]



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 18:18:15)

Jaybee - Thanks

quote:

I took the liberty...


No liberty at all - feel free to do it with anything on my sites - so long as it's better and you don't charge me I'm happy [:D] - and it is better overall (the bottom of the image is not so good but the rest is definitely an improvement) - using gif for this one didn't occur to me - It's up there already - THANKYOU!

Re IE...

Go on shoot me... I like it! It's the most forgiving browser in the world - most days [:D]

Re the 'funny' at the bottom...

This is my latest (or I should say in preparation for it) hair-brain scheme... I intend to offer clients the option of joining a link circle - a page on every site I create that links to all the other sites I create - mainly for search engine benefits. I don't expect human visitors to stumble across these pages very often but if they do it shall say something like "other sites by On-The-Web-Now!" and just give a list of links. No doubt this is not a new idea - is there any reason why it isn't a good idea?

Thanks for input and the image help[;)]



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 18:22:36)

The idea is fine, I was just a bit non-plussed when I got there. If you have the original of that signage pic you can mail it to me and I'll crunch it for you.



Nicole -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 18:39:25)

Rick,

As Jaybee has said, that's a very impressive site, congrats!

One thing i noticed in Firefox 1.07, not sure if it happens in other browsers (but this usually happens in IE anyway), is that when moving between pages the whole page seems to load again. Usually when the page width stays the same and the banner is always the same they should just reload the different content shouldn't they? Or am I assuming something i shouldn't? Does this only happen with includes?

Very nice site though,

Nicole



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 18:45:08)

quote:

The idea is fine, I was just a bit non-plussed when I got there. If you have the original of that signage pic you can mail it to me and I'll crunch it for you.


You're so kind[:)] I won't take up your time on this occassion though as I have a confession to make...[:)]... This site is a revamp of one I done previously (my third website - no need to search for it[&:]) and I simply re-used the previous images (bar a quick touch here and there) that were on the first occassion cropped in a very low-end image editor! This was only supposed to be a 'quick job' now (huh!) so I didn't return to the originals. Looking at them now I can see that a number of them could be handled vastly better and so I will re-do a number of them from scratch - plus, I have just realised that gif may well be a better option for quite a few of the thumbnail size images on both the signs page and the ironmongery page.[8|]

This is now sounding like the reality of what was just being said on the thread before this one - a never ending cycle![:(]

Thanks Jaybee - I'll save the favour for something else though if I may[:D]



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 18:56:04)

Thanks Nicole!

quote:

Does this only happen with includes?


There you've got me!?

I notice on various browsers that sometimes pages (with same positioned content) load seemlessly and other times, like you say, it's a complete reload.

I have used FP includes in the banner (and PHP in the footer) in the site - I don't know if that is the cause though?

Another thought... I have used <<<META - No Cache etc.>>> in these pages could that affect the reloading of pages IN THE SAME SESSION? - maybe!

On this note... I have noticed with the banner animation that when I change pages in IE it re-runs on each page change but in FF (1.06) it doesn't.



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 19:08:22)

quote:

Does this only happen with includes?


If something has already loaded once then it shouldn't do it again unless, a certain person has stored them all with different names??????



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/24/2005 19:14:20)

quote:

No Cache


That'll do it.

quote:

I have noticed with the banner animation that when I change pages in IE it re-runs on each page change but in FF (1.06) it doesn't.


Ahhh now that's a FF IE conflict. They handle gifs differently. I put a thread about it on here a few months ago.

IE sees a gif and runs it, and runs it, and runs it.

FF sees a gif, runs it and then says "I've run it once already" (Jewish origins maybe. [;)]

Now it depends on what you're doing as to whether that suits you or not.

You can see a prime example of it HERE

Hover over the menu buttons in FF, then try IE

It drove me nuts trying to find a way round it and eventually I just gave up. You can try different things like loop forever or add static frames into the gif so it looks like it's not looping, just starting and stopping but the permutations got too much in the end and I decided life was too short.



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 4:17:53)

Yes, the 'No Cache' is probably the reason - it'll be removed when the job is complete and we'll see if FF treats it differently then.

Re animated gifs...

quote:

You can see a prime example of it HERE

Hover over the menu buttons in FF, then try IE


Like it! - nice menu. Great in IE (see, I told you IE is kind to designers[:D]) but very inconsistent in FF! If FF handles gifs this way then I suppose even a js swap-image on mouse etc. (the second image being the animated one) still wouldn't be the answer!(?)

I think web designing is like decorating (getting philosophical here!) - as the job draws to a close you look closer and closer at the fine detail and there is always a little something extra that could be done - BUT... you MUST innevitably say at some point... "that'll do"[;)]



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 5:47:13)

I've reworked 3 of the images (from the originals) on the bespoke signage page, inculding the 'samples board' - that's better! - take a look:

http://www.ukcustomsigns.co.uk/bespoke-signage/bespoke-signage.htm



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 6:41:47)

MUCH better.

Now the thing with FF and gifs is, if you want to have an animated something in your header that only runs once then stops, Yay FF. Bad IE.

But if you're using a gif as a mouseover and therefore multiple times on a page as I am on that site, booo FF Yay IE (Did I say that, yikes!)

I doubt if JS would make any difference, it's still an animated gif. The only way I can think of fixing it would be to use Flash and I wanted css only.

I tried having a loop forever gif but then the helicopters just kept flying across the buttons and drove me nuts so I put a pause in which is why they sit still for a while in FF and then shoot across again.

Opera handles it the same way as IE so it's definitely a FF oddity. I'll report it.



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 6:52:36)

OK, here's the answer:

quote:

Image animation preference

There is a preference that affects animated image behaviour.
[edit]
Using about:config

In Mozilla Suite and Firefox:

1. In the Location Bar type about:config and hit Enter
2. Type "anim" in the Filter field (to quickly find the needed preference)
3. Double-click the image.animation_mode line and edit it to one of the following:

none — will prevent image animation
once — will let the image animate once
normal — will allow it to play over and over



Which is fine but you can't leave instructions for users to do that before looking at your page. I think it should come with a default setting of normal to tally with the other browsers.

[edit] No, nix that. The default setting is normal. It only works for one occurrence of the gif.



Tailslide -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 7:23:10)

It looks good. The animation isn't intrusive so it's fine.

If you add this rule to your CSS:

html { min-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 1px; }

You'll force a vertical scrollbar in FF/Moz and get round the problem of page shift when the scrollbar disappears (it's always there in IE). I always add this just because I find page shift really annoying for neat centralised layouts.

I'd make the valid code buttons smaller (if you're going to include them) - maybe more along the lines of the ones on this site: http://www.sovavsiti.cz/css/w3c_buttons.htmlhttp://www.sovavsiti.cz/css/w3c_buttons.html It's all very well using these types of button but they are UGLY! You should also add the url link into the button as per the W3C validation page otherwise you just get a "no referrer found" page when you click on it.



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 8:03:27)

One of the FF developers reckons that my menu works fine for him. After a bit of questioning it turns out he's using the latest nightly build so they may be on their way to fixing it.



caz -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 9:33:22)

quote:

page shift


Thanks for that Tail, I didn't know that you could do that; the pageshift is very annoying.



caz -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 10:49:47)

quote:

edit P.S. If anyone can explain/help with a small problem on my nav bar please say on... The rollover effect should occur when the mouse goes over the cell area of each link - and it does in every browser tested so afr except IE (6). With IE... weird!... It works on the first cell but with all the others the effect is only triggered when the mouseover reaches the text! ? any ideas!?:)


I had this previously using lists for a horizontal nav and found that you have to give a width to make the hovered area bigger than the text, so try this:- 


#nav TD A 
{width: 100%; padding-right: 0px; display: block; padding-left: 0px; font-size: 11px; padding-bottom: 2px; color: #333333; padding-top: 2px; text-decoration: none}


For IE of course. [;)]



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 15:11:08)

Jaybee...
Thanks for the lowdown on FF & Gif animation - mind-boggling! I'll settle for whatever it gives me (or doesn't!) on this occassion[8|]

Tailside...
quote:

I find page shift really annoying for neat centralised layouts.

I'm not seeing any in any browser - it is reloading the header in some is that what you mean?

quote:

these types of button but they are UGLY!

Agreed! I have seen some much nicer ones on my travels but I can't remember where - I mean different to the ones on the page you give - nicer colours - I suppose there is nothing stopping us from creating our own custom ones (is there?)
The HTML one links to the validate page but not the CSS one yet. I wouldn't put these on all sites I do but given the 'standards' / 'technical' nature of this site I think they lend weight - haven't checked client preferences yet though.

Caz...
Tried it and it didn't work and also caused the effect to cease completely in FF too, in which it did previously work as desired - I guess it is just a quirk of IE! - Very strange how it works on one TD cell but not all the rest!?

Re CSS validation... Can you answer me this...
A lot of "warnings" (as opposed "errors") are all about specifying colour. If I set my H tag to color:blue, according to W3C I should also set a background colour for my H tag. Now, if I only want my H tag to blend with the body background it will do this by default - what is the point of writing H1 - color:blue; background: grey; (assuming grey body bgnd)? Isn't this unnecessary code bloating?



Tailslide -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 15:18:57)

Hi Rick

The page shift happens in Firefox and Mozilla on pages where you don't get a vertical scrollbar - the page shifts slightly right. In IE there's always a scrollbar (although it's shaded out when there's not enough text). In FF/Moz if there isn't enough text to require a scrollbar then there isn't one. This is what causes the slight shift - FF adds the scrollbar on longer pages and therefore the whole page moves over slightly to the left. Look at your site in FF on the homepage then click to the longer page and you'll see it shift over slightly.

The validation buttons go to the W3C site but don't actually validate the page - try clicking them.

This is the site where you can make up your own small, pretty buttons: http://kalsey.com/tools/buttonmaker/

On the CSS validation thing - the W3C CSS validator has been tweaked lately and has started producing these warnings again. Think of them as a reminder about setting background colours if you need to. Don't worry too much about them - they're warnings not errors.



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 16:18:53)

Caz...

It seems that the width: 100% was the answer afterall but it didn't work first time I tried it and I think I changed something else on the other parts of the id but I don't know what it was - I tried so many! - but thanks for what was essentially the answer - works fine now in IE [:D]

Tailside...
You must be viewing in 1280px res or above - yes? I am on 1152 and so none of the pages on this site are without a scroll bar on my monitor - but I understand exactly what you mean and will add your fix - thanks! Perhaps you can check again - ta[;)]

I've clicked the HTML validation button in IE and FF and it works fine for me!?

Re the "warnings" I was a bit perturbed by these as I am using a previous CSS sheet (to form the basis) that validated fine! So, does this mean now that if I link the sheet to the W3C CSS validation that it will just keep coming up with warnings all the time? I don't see the point of all that extra color/bgnd color specifications when one just wants the default! It seems a waste of time to me. New thread maybe!?



jaybee -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 16:41:09)

quote:

So, does this mean now that if I link the sheet to the W3C CSS validation that it will just keep coming up with warnings all the time?


Yes and don't worry we were just as horrified as you were when it first popped up.



RickP -> RE: Comments - tests - input - whatever! (9/25/2005 16:48:09)

[sm=yikes.gif]



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