A few questions about my site. (Full Version)

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gessosaxman -> A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 16:11:20)

Ok, I did the search thing, and I am having a hard time finding the answers to my questions, so here goes. Oh, the site in question can be viewed at www.gesso-music.com

1.) Ok, so everything on the sight seems to work fine on my computer, and looks the same on my wife's laptop except for the text. All the images that I designed in photoshop, and then placed on the page in front page look fine. However, the text that I entered in frontpage is much larger on her computer then on mine. There is some text at the bottom of the main page, that I actually used photoshop and created a image, then placed it in the page. This text is fine. It is only the text that was entered in front page.

2.) I have read that it is a good idea to test your page in several browsers. This makes since to me. So what browsers do you guys recommend I check it in.

3.) Ok, this is the last one for now. So on my site I have a "news" page. I would like to be able to have a scrollable text box here so that I could add a number of news items in this space and leave them while I add more. Without a scrollable box here, I am very limited as to the amount of information I can put in this space. I know that this could be done with frames, but for established reasons, I do not want to do this. I have also seen the text box option in front page, but this seems to only allow for a white background. I want a black background to match the rest of the site.

Thanks a lot guys (and gals).

Matt N



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 16:27:34)

Hi Matt

You are right about checking in several browsers being a good idea - but also bear in mind: different versions of browsers running on varying platforms (i.e. windows, mac).

Very important is to check your site in different monitor resolution settings. 800 x 600 very common, 1024 x 768 probably most common nowadays, 1280 x 1024 getting more popular.

Browsers checks could be endless but I check
IE6
IE5 or 5.5
FireFox (recent version)
Netscape (ditto)
Opera (ditto)

Scrolling Text Box no problem (assuming you have latest FP I don't know about older versions) - just insert text area (box) R-click > properties > style... and away you go - choose background shading etc.

Hope that all helps



Larry M. -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 16:27:52)

Matt,

1.) Your wife's laptop browser may be set to a larger text size - a visitor behavior, btw, you can't control. On her machine, check View, Text Size. Default is Medium.

2.) This is a FireFox crowd - one I've never joined, but, heh, that's me.

3.) www.FrontLook.com has a couple of good scrollers. You can eye dropper your color and set it as the hexadecimal scroller background. Example Here



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 16:35:19)

Re the 800px monitor setting - thought as much, just checked and your site is off the screen to the right.

It looks to me that you've laid out the site with a rather complicated margin. The best thing for your site is simply to 'center' your main containing div and do not set it any wider than 770px

[;)]



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 16:38:07)

Thanks to both of you guys. I really like the scroller in the example that Larry showed. I will have to give that a try. This would be a great tool for when I have several items to place up there. In the mean time, I think a regular scroll box will work. But I do really like that self scrolling text.

Matt N.



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 16:39:25)

Ok, so how do I "center" it?



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 16:41:57)

Oh, and Larry, you were right about the text setting on the wifes computer. Changed it, and it fixed the problem.

Matt N.



Tailslide -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 17:22:29)

Hi Matt

You're currently using postion:absolute to position stuff on your page - this is generally a Bad Idea tm as it makes the page fragile and easy to break by increasing font-size or changing screen resolution to anything other than what you designed for.

What you do is this - go here and check out the three column layout.

You've basically got a container box holding everything else - you centre this box on the page - it will be centred whatever the page size is.

You then float two boxes within this container. The left hand box contains your left hand column of links, one after the other and the central column. The right hand box is the right hand column of links. Reason for not having three floated boxes next to each other is that they can misbehave if more than 2 boxes are floated in a row - you don't want that happening with big bits of your site.

Here's a site that lays it out: http://www.kingcosmonaut.de/journal/3col-layout/



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 18:14:25)

Personally, I wouldn't use any css floating boxes at all unless you're familiar with CSS and the various different browser interpretations of CSS layout. No doubt it is theoretically the best way to do things but for anyone less than familiar with it I think the safest approach is to use a 770px table and center it in the page and go from there. And seeing that you're using FrontPage I know from experience it doesn't handle CSS layout at all well and makes working in design view difficult.



caz -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/26/2005 19:09:22)

I'm glad that you said "personally" there because the OP is using divs and to suggest moving back to tables would seem like a retrograde step for him, especially as Tailslide has given him an excellent link to achieve what he wants with CSS. Using CSS with FP is fine if you stay away from design view (imo staying away from design view in any editor is a very good idea) and giving pages DOCTYPES will help a lot too.



Tailslide -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 2:28:24)

Rick - the reason I suggest using floated divs as Caz has said is because the site in question isn't using a table layout - it's using divs albeit absolutely positioned ones.



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 6:07:57)

Caz/Tailside

My suggestion is because 2 things seem clear to me:

Matt is new to design and he does use FP design view for his work (possibly with little or no additional code editing at all?). IMHO (assuming the latter to be correct) I think the tables option would be best - at least if it is a case of laying things out afresh, but if it is possible to easily 'fix' the current situation then by all means just fix it.

But, as mentioned, just personal opinion[;)]



Tailslide -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 6:29:05)

Only time I ever move backwards is when I'm being approached by those double glazing salesmen that hang around outside supermarkets! [:D]



caz -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 6:50:23)

Frontpage and CSS

Doctypes in FP
Although there may be many reasons why you may not want to use a DOCTYPE declaration, there are just as many reasons, and more, why you should use a DOCTYPE declaration. Understanding what a DOCTYPE is and the purposes for the various DOCTYPEs takes you one step closer to developing Web sites that display the same in all browsers.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/default.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/odc_fp2003_ta/html/odc_fpWorkingWithDocType.asp

Basics of CSS and FP: note that none of these examples produce code that will validate - because they are based on using Design View. Even so they point to the wisdom of using CSS, albeit applied to tables.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/default.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/odc_fp2003_ta/html/odc_fpWorkingWithDocType.asp
References to CSS on MS Frontpage site

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/results.aspx?Scope=FX%2CHA%2CHP%2CQZ%2CRC%2CXT&Query=css&App=FP






womble -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 6:51:19)

My suggestion would be to ditch the design view and work in code view, or at least work in split view, as Caz already suggested. To really get a handle on how CSS works, you have to work at least partly in code view.



Donkey -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 6:58:23)

I think that by advocating tables you are uneccessarily complicating things. If Matt is seriously learning to use CSS then there is no point in going for a quick fix solution. Learning positioning via tables may be easy but it is IMHO a waste of time to learn this outmoded way of positioning if you don't need to.

CSS positioning is no more difficult than using tables, it only seems that way because you are used to tables. For someone just starting to learn web design then using tables as a means of positioning is pointless. It's like teaching a train driver how to operate a steam engine when he drives a diesel.



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 12:20:21)

Some have suggested that I not work in design view. There is only one problem with that. I do not know anything about HTML coding. Now I am willing to learn, but this does nt help me at this stage of the game.

Matt N.



dpf -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 12:28:18)

remembering my own early experiences, I guess I would recommend to someone that is just starting out that they do use tables and not css for positioning. abandoning design view for code view doesnt help if a beginner doesnt understand code <smile>. i havent used fp since fp2002 - i know that DW incorporates css easily into design view but fp2002 sure didnt - i dont know about the latest one. no matter how advanced the modern tools are, if I were teaching a kid how to do carpentry, I would begin with hand tools.



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 12:51:15)

Thanks, I am currently working on redoing the site using tables and includes page. This will at least help with maintenance.

Matt N.



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 14:45:06)

I have updated my site with some of the suggestion I found in here. Let me know what you think. If nothing else, I got it to work in FF. The address is
www.gesso-music.com

Matt N.



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 15:37:00)

quote:

Some have suggested that I not work in design view. There is only one problem with that. I do not know anything about HTML coding. Now I am willing to learn, but this does nt help me at this stage of the game.


quote:

remembering my own early experiences, I guess I would recommend to someone that is just starting out that they do use tables and not css for positioning. abandoning design view for code view doesnt help if a beginner doesnt understand code <smile>. i havent used fp since fp2002 - i know that DW incorporates css easily into design view but fp2002 sure didnt - i dont know about the latest one. no matter how advanced the modern tools are, if I were teaching a kid how to do carpentry, I would begin with hand tools.


Er, yeh... this was my point! It's the 'beginners forum'. I know that table layout may not be seen by some as a 'stepping stone' to CSS layout - but on the other hand it may (?). Either way, for anything less than an exteremly basic layout, tables will produce a more predictable and consistent result for the novice (IMHPIO)[;)] And even if Matt continues in web design and decides to use CSS for his main page layout in future he will still need to use tables at times within this. So, it meets the short-term need and is not wasted experience as it will still form part of his design work in the future.

Anyhow... (phew!)... Matt, your homepage does now fit all common screen sizes - well done! Your 'news' page still needs sorting. And here's one more comment to be going on with... Most of the links take you outside of your actual site - you need to make clear to your visitors that this is what is going to happen - and ... you'll need to give them a means to return again from those other sites. In fact, at this stage it is not really a 'website' in a consistent sense, more a collection of 'links' - I don't mean this discouragingly - just the opposite - food for thought[;)]

Dan... I can confirm that FP2003 cannot handle CSS layout at all well - despite the design view tools for creating it! It gets really messy!



jaybee -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 15:47:27)

quote:

I can confirm that FP2003 cannot handle CSS layout at all well


Depends on how complicated the layout is. A few straightforward divs and it's fine but I have a photo gallery that's pure css and uses a lot of css hover states and OH BOY what a mess design view makes of that. [&:]



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 15:52:36)

quote:

A few straightforward divs and it's fine but I have a photo gallery that's pure css and uses a lot of css hover states and OH BOY what a mess


agreed!



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/27/2005 16:37:14)

So Rick, how would you suggest I let people know that the links are going to direct them other places. Also how can I get them back. The links are about 50/50 as to those that stay at my website, and those that go someplace else. I can see combining the email and booking info into one "contact" link that goes to a page that then tells you about the person that handles our booking, and has a link to email the band. what others suggestions would you guys have in regards to this problem?

Matt N.



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/28/2005 8:30:18)

Matt - it's really up to you how you co-ordinate everything into your design. Here are my thoughts/suggestions, which you may want to think about as one way ahead(?)

1. Ideally... The information etc. on all those other sites you link-out to should be brought into your one singular site. This keeps things neat, consistent and easier to manage.

2. If you really must link-out to all these other things then you must either:

A. Provide a clear link-back to your main site on each of those other sites or...

B. You could set the hyperlink to those sites so that they open in a new window. That way when your visitor has finished with the peice of info that you have directed them to on those sites they can just close the window and there's your site still waiting for them right underneath.

Using A or B above you should also put all of those external links together and keep all of the internal links together - somehow you must indicate to your visitors what will lead them to where.

That's a couple of ways ahead - option 1 requires the most work but will produce the best result ultimately.

[;)]



womble -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/28/2005 16:06:51)

quote:

B. You could set the hyperlink to those sites so that they open in a new window.

Bear in mind though that opening new windows without warning can cause accessibility problems, and you should at least warn visitors that the link will open in a new window).

quote:

how would you suggest I let people know that the links are going to direct them other places

As for how to show a link's an external link (other than putting "(external link)" after it or something, a few ideas, you could use a direct colour link to indicate external links (though bear in mind that's not going to be any help to colourblind or blind visitors), in the title attribute (in the hyperlink properties you can add what FP calls a 'screentip', which adds in the title attribute into the code, use something like 'link to external site'.
The method I'm using at the moment is a combination of the title attribute and something I picked up from someone around here (I think it may have been davidrandall) which is to use an arrow before or after the hyperlink text, e.g. title="External link: Go to mysite.com's site", and then the hyperlink text would be "mysite.com ↗"



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/28/2005 20:07:16)

Thanks guys. I will have to think about how to get the info from the other sites onto my site. Any suggestions on how to put our music on my site? I know there are a number of ways to do it, I would just like your suggestions. Thanks a lot guys. This group has been VERY helpful. I have already learned a lot between here, and just playing with FP.

Matt N.
www.gesso-music.com



Larry M. -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/28/2005 21:27:16)

quote:

You could set the hyperlink to those sites so that they open in a new window. That way when your visitor has finished with the piece of info that you have directed them to on those sites they can just close the window and there's your site still waiting for them right underneath


Good tip [&:]

The way to code hyperlinks to operate this way is to enter: target="_blank" at Target Frame >> Target Setting



RickP -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/29/2005 17:09:31)

quote:

Any suggestions on how to put our music on my site?


Matt,

I don't have a lot of experience with MP3s (the format which your music is currently in). However, if you just want to transfer the few tracks that are on that web page I think you should be able to just copy and paste the code from the page - the part that has the flash thingy.

In fact, here you go, here's that part... 

<OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=7,0,0,0" WIDTH="450" HEIGHT="345" id="mp3player" ALIGN="" border=0>
    <PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="http://music.myspace.com/music/musicplayer.swf?d=MTk0NzM2MDBeMTEyODAwMjQ1MQ==&n=aHR0cDovL211c2ljLm15c3BhY2UuY29tLw==&u=LTE=&a=0&p=">
    <PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high>
    <EMBED src="http://music.myspace.com/music/musicplayer.swf?d=MTk0NzM2MDBeMTEyODAwMjQ1MQ==&n=aHR0cDovL211c2ljLm15c3BhY2UuY29tLw==&u=LTE=&a=0&p=" quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH="450" HEIGHT="345" NAME="mp3player" ALIGN="" TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></EMBED>
</OBJECT>



If you can't manage working with pasting this code then you could open that page (direct from your browser) in FrontPage (design view) and copy and paste the whole flash player (thingy!) from there.

A simple method of adding other sound files to your site is to put them in a folder and just set a link to each one - but there are more sophisticated ways of playing them from your site - like for example, the flash player you already have on that other page but maybe someone else can tell you how's best to handle them that way.



gessosaxman -> RE: A few questions about my site. (9/29/2005 23:18:25)

Thanks Rick. I don't really want to force my music on people when they first come to the site. I would, however, like to give them the option to listen without having to leave the site. So if I just put it in a folder, with a link to each song. When they clicked the link, would it then open their default music player, and play the song? Thanks, as always.

Matt N.



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