Keywords On Pages with Little Content (Full Version)

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jengoggtim -> Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 9:23:57)

I have a number of pages in my site that have very little content (www.sunembroideryscreenprinting.com - Contact, Comments, About Us). Should I only have a few key words such as "embroidery & screen printing" on these pages or should I really add more content so I can have more keywords? Thanks!



dpf -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 9:28:55)

quote:

Should I only have a few key words such as "embroidery & screen printing" on these pages or should I really add more content so I can have more keywords? Thanks!
to me, thats like saying should I add more rooms to my new house under construction so I can paint more? suggestion: forget SEO at first - design sensible pages with meaningful content - then write keywords that reflect each page.



Mojo -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 10:28:30)

SEO can be done with just backlinks and a few on-topic phrases. WH SEOs or people that can't otherwise think outside their own limitations will insist that content is king and that is what you need. Rubbish. With the current link based algos all you need are the right kinds and quantity of backlinks.



jengoggtim -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 11:01:38)

I'm not familiar with the term "backlinks". Is that the same as external links? I am linked to 3 garment vendor catalogues & an embroidery design catalogue. Are those backlinks? Thanks.



Brandon -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 11:05:35)

Backlinks are links from other websites to yours....



womble -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 11:06:11)

Backlinks are other sites linking to yours



golfer -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 11:28:56)

Ok Mojo. Let me get this straight. You say that keywords are pointless and backlinks are the only way that Search Engines operate these days.

So if I build a site full of all kinds of topics and then have a plethora of suitable backlinks I will get reasonable rankings. If that is the case then surely there is little opportunity for a specialist website dealing with one matter e.g. Dentist, Management Consultant etc. to show up in a search as they may have only a few links.

Is my understanding correct?



jengoggtim -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 11:35:50)

Okay, so I should try to get sites similar to my field (eg signmaker) to link with me? How many links are good? Can too many links creat a problem?

How about using links such as Chamber of Commerces that I belong to? They are not in my "work sphere" but I know I can link to them & they get a lot of hits. Thanks.



womble -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 11:40:17)

So contrary to what we're always told, SEs ignore heading tags etc? [8|]

I thought the whole point of websites from a user's point of view was the content, which I think is what dpf was getting at, but maybe I'm missing the point. [8|]

To my mind, getting the content in first, and as dpf says, using keywords relevant to each page seems an entirely sensible way to go. As far as I can see it's the reliance on backlinks, rather than content that lands you with pages and pages of irrelevant search engine results pages before you actually find what you're looking for.



Mojo -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 13:10:27)

You guys are thinking like site owners - not search engines.

quote:

Ok Mojo. Let me get this straight. You say that keywords are pointless and backlinks are the only way that Search Engines operate these days.


No. I said, " SEO can be done with just backlinks and a few on-topic phrases" (bold added)

The Google algo has many components, but currently the most important are links and the context of the site linking to you. There so many examples of this that I don't even want to get into it, but even the dullest webmaster knows the "miserable failure" trick at Google. It still works after all this time and publicity.

There is *no way* you can rank in a highly competitive category without tons of backlinks. The content doesn't even have to be that good, but without links your dead in the water. So, put up your site with lame, but unique content and immediately add links. Soon enough you will have traffic. Add some Adsense to the mix and your now making money inside of 6 weeks. Wash, rinse and repeat.



Kitka -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 17:06:05)

quote:

and immediately add links


With caution though! Do not link to "Link farms" and so-called "bad neighbourhoods" and do not garner hundreds of back-links in a short space of time. Google (in particular) looks for organic growth of links - a few added gradually over time, not heaps all at once.



Mojo -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/11/2005 17:16:44)

You're cautious if you only have a single site generating income (not smart) or you follow all the outdated advice avaiable on the net. Hundreds of backlinks is not a flag in itself. If your site has an edgy article you could generate a significant amount of backlinks in a short time. This is natural. This is also done on purpose - it's called link baiting.

quote:

Google (in particular) looks for organic growth of links - a few added gradually over time, not heaps all at once.


I could ask if you could prove that, but nobody can so it's an unfair question. I know that has been said a lot, but it is not true for all sites and the idea of a few links is VERY subjective. 10 in 1 month may be a lot for a site in a slow category while 100 in a month wouldn't be much. When your competition has 100,000+ backlinks you have some major catching up to do.



Reflect -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/15/2005 11:04:27)

quote:

I have a number of pages in my site that have very little content (www.sunembroideryscreenprinting.com - Contact, Comments, About Us). Should I only have a few key words such as "embroidery & screen printing" on these pages or should I really add more content so I can have more keywords


I think a major point was missed/overlooked from the posters first question (what I have quoted above).

When doing SEO for sites I go out of my way to get pagers NOT listed. Example:

contact us
shipping
orderstatus
Etc.

Why try to get those pages ranked let alone in the SERPs period? Who cares about your contact us page (No offense jengoggtim) or link to us page?

I routinely use METAs and robots.txt to block these types of pages. I even use a redirect on some sites so the bot/spider can not follow the link.

Take care,

Brian




jengoggtim -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/15/2005 20:18:51)

I see your point. I didn't realize that you could try to prevent SEs from seeing a page but can you be more specific (I'm a total beginner) about how to do this? Thanks!



Kitka -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/15/2005 21:10:24)

quote:

I even use a redirect on some sites so the bot/spider can not follow the link.


How do you use a redirect that will only affect a spider but not humans that you want to be able to view a page?



bob2001 -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/15/2005 23:20:53)

Hello,
I believe that your content is important as Google uses content PLUS backlinks IF they are legitimate backlinks and not spam or purchased links from a link farm,etc. My website www.forgottenword.org ranks #1 on Google, MSN and Yahoo in a couple 3 categories. If searching for false preachers, exposing false preachers or names of false preachers on the top 3 search sites you will see where we come up. It took a lot of work to accomplish this and I found that with good content I had a decent ranking but as soon as I established backlinks with only 4 really top sites that were VERY RELEVANT to the content on our site, the rankings went to the top. So it is a combination I think. Good luck.



Reflect -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/16/2005 12:46:50)

quote:

How do you use a redirect that will only affect a spider but not humans that you want to be able to view a page?


Sorry, I should have worded that differently. On links to internal pages that I do not want spidered I point the link at a CGI script that then goes to the true page. This way then spider can not follow the link.

quote:

I didn't realize that you could try to prevent SEs from seeing a page but can you be more specific (I'm a total beginner) about how to do this?


Sure....

Start with a robots.txt file in the root of your web site. I make mine using notepad. You can use anything that will not add formatting as this is a bad thing for this file. This file only purpose to exist is for bots/spiders. Most bots/spiders, except rouge ones, will look for this file first. It will then see it is not allowed to look at a certain directory or page and honor it.

Example of robot.txt file:

User-agent: *
Disallow: /_vti_cnf/
Disallow: /_vti_log/
Disallow: /_vti_pvt/
Disallow: /_vti_txt/
Disallow: /_borders/
Disallow: /_fpclcass/
Disallow: /_overlay/
Disallow: /_private/
Disallow: /cgi-bin/
Disallow: /checker/
Disallow: /css/
Disallow: /js/
Disallow: /masters/
Disallow: /misc/
Disallow: /readings/vsadmin/
Disallow: /readings/affiliate.asp
Disallow: /readings/cart.asp
Disallow: /readings/search.asp
Disallow: /readings/sorry.asp
Disallow: /readings/style.css
Disallow: /readings/thanks.asp
Disallow: /send/
Disallow: /tarot-card-spread/

This is my actual robbots.txt file. The first line is saying to ALL spiders/bots that it applies to them being "User-agent: *". You can actually target spider/bots by known names. Then say you have a page optimized for Yahoo but don't want the Google bot to see is you could do this:

User-agent: googlebot

This portion "Disallow" tells the bot it is not allowed to view it. On the flip side if you want a file or directory seen you can NOT use "Allow", this happens naturally when they are not Disallowed.

Once the file is created upload it to the root of your web and that will cover implementing.

Reference:

http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/norobots.html

Next thing I do, as a backup plan is use METAs. You can use:

<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW">
<meta name="robots" content="noindex,follow">
<meta name="robots" content="index,nofollow">


Depending on if you want the page not indexed, or not indexed but to follow links on the page, etc.. Reference:

http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/meta-user.html

Also you could tell a Google spider/bot not to follow a particular link. I, IMHO, do not use that. I see it as two fold and am waiting for this to season a little more to see what Google really will use this for.

<a href=http://www.example.com/ rel="nofollow">I can't vouch for this link</a>

Now there is also cloaking but I have not studied this as it is a sharp and painful sword if used wrongly.

Take care,

Brian



eTechSupport.net -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/17/2005 10:05:33)

Content is gold to your site, if you make changes in your site by adding good content, you can see the difference.



Reflect -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (11/17/2005 12:18:58)

quote:

Content is gold to your site, if you make changes in your site by adding good content, you can see the difference.


True but on the pages mentioned I would want to avoid getting spidered let alone ranked.

Take care,

Brian



nashville1012 -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (4/21/2006 20:39:58)

Hi,

Is it really important to block spiders from seeing pages like contact us or receipt confirmation pages. I get not wanting/needing to get those pages ranked - but what is the benefit of blocking them? Any downside?

thanks



Reflect -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (4/25/2006 15:13:43)

quote:

I get not wanting/needing to get those pages ranked - but what is the benefit of blocking them


Think Page Rank. By the spider/bot not seeing the page page rank is not passed. Also, as I mentioned above, using a redirect script will throw page rank off also.

Think hoarding.

Take care,

Brian



nashville1012 -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (4/25/2006 15:34:34)

Dumb question - but I just want to be sure. I don't see any htm pages your example...would I disallow by :

Disallow: /contact_us.htm



Reflect -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (4/26/2006 10:54:10)

Correct.

Take care,

Brian



Mojo -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (4/26/2006 11:14:34)

The 'contact us'/ 'about us' or shipping info pages are *very* useful for local search results. If your site is trusted, what better place to get an idea of your location that your contact page? You can also prime the local search pumps on shipping, about us etc...




Reflect -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (4/26/2006 15:09:14)

True, I never looked at it that way as I do nothing locally.

Take care,

Brian



Mojo -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (4/26/2006 15:54:06)

LOL! Fair enough!



webmaster -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (6/1/2006 0:49:01)

I am not agree from this point to block spider from seeing pages link contact us or receipt. Is there any resason for doing that



Reflect -> RE: Keywords On Pages with Little Content (6/1/2006 9:19:57)

quote:

I am not agree from this point to block spider from seeing pages link contact us or receipt. Is there any resason for doing that


Explained above...

quote:

Think Page Rank. By the spider/bot not seeing the page page rank is not passed.


Also, as Mojo pointed out, some businesses would benifit from it. However that is local exposure only. If your site does not concentrate on getting local business then the ranking is worthless IMHO.

Also why would you want your "reciept" page to show up in the SERPS? Also why would you want to pass VALUABLE page rank from a more important page to a page of this nature?

Take care,

Brian



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