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Tailslide
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 10:07:14
I have a couple of clients who felt they were up for actually getting into the code so I taught them how to edit using HTML-kit the bits they'd need to edit and which bits to leave alone. I did a very detailed manual for them and so far they've had no difficulties that I can see!
I have another client that would need to edit the news section of their site so I set up a mySQL db with php form interface for them to add/edit/delete bits - same for their recruitment page for the jobs list.
Most of the rest of them prefer to pay a small maintenance fee ever so often for me to do changes for them.
Unless you're going to look into the db or cms side of things I'd try to persuade them that it's not a good idea. Failing that make sure they understand that they'll have to pay up if you need to repair the site.
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Little Blue Plane Web Design | Blood, Sweat & Rust - A Land Rover restoration project
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caz
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 10:55:17
You could also have a look at Text Area Rich which is reasonably priced and you can configure it to control just what your clients can do. The drawback is that it will only work with IE on a PC.
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dpf
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 11:20:17
quote:
The drawback is that it will only work with IE on a PC. does that mean that updating only works on IE or does it also mean that the output only shows up via IE (..is dense today)
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d a v e
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 11:41:02
if you're using dreamweaver then there's always contribute...
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Gekko web design
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dpf
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 11:43:15
dave: does the client have to have a licensed copy of contribute?
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dpf
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 11:46:15
im starting a project now where the client wants some yet to be determined access to updates - i havent decided on a solution yet. I had a client where their site required daily updates at 3 specific places. i gave them a passworded protected asp uploader page where they upload .inc files (text files created in notepad), overwriting the prior version. I charged them $250 for that feature.
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 12:03:12
It really depends on how large the website is. Most CMS scripts have a built-in control for a template system, usually overkill for small websites.
I find that just by using File Manage (inside of cPanel), most of the time clients can make the edits on their own. If your clients just need to edit some text, you can think about storing that text information inside of a database, and having an admin section that allows you to edit that text. For a small website, it would take a lot less time to make the site grab text from a database, than to implement a CMS.
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caz
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 12:08:34
A lot easier to use Text Area Rich for them, being browser side and looking just like MS Word.
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I remember when it took less than 4hrs to fly across the Atlantic.
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Tailslide
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 12:49:13
Caz - what sort of output does it produce? Is it reasonably valid or does it use <br><br> instead on <p> for example? Does it close tags too?
Edit: it wants me to use IE5+ to check but I'm on the mac as the PC finally died on me so I can't check myself.
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RickP
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 13:44:56
Thanks Everyone
Haven't started to investigate all the things mentioned here yet so I may be back with a few more specific questions soon but that's all helpful.
Re Contribute...
I have trialed 'Contribute' before and thought it was an excellent option for non-coders. I use FP (2003) myself but all final code is hand-edited (W3C valid of course!) so would it really make any difference if the original code is conceived in DW or FP or whatever?
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RickP
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 14:10:54
Just investigating TEXT AREA RICH & HTML KIT...
Using the above... is there a way of protecting the main structure of my pages (banner, nav, footer etc.) and configuring things so the client can only access the 'content' part of the site?
The above could be achieved if I set up DWT templates in FP and told the client to use FP but only in wysiwyg view (it doesn't allow changes to the templated areas this way). Can anyone see an obvious drawback to this approach?
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dpf
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 14:35:26
quote:
Can anyone see an obvious drawback to this approach? ...err, yes. ever notice how many "newbies" on this forum struggle with the learning curve (just as we all did)?
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Kitka
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 15:00:03
You might consider Content Seed CMS. It plugs in to FrontPage nice and neatly for you to deploy it.
quote:
... allows virtually anyone to edit their own site just by visiting it in a browser and clicking a button. No software, no publishing, no hassles.
And Chris sometimes answers questions here.
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Kitka
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RickP
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 16:22:32
Thanks some more - looking into the Content Seed site - seems a possibility - how does it 'limit' the access to parts of the page you don't want touching? - Does it simply read the template commented lines and keep out of that area? That would be neat.
Dan...
quote:
ORIGINAL: dpf
quote:
Can anyone see an obvious drawback to this approach? ...err, yes. ever notice how many "newbies" on this forum struggle with the learning curve (just as we all did)?
In this instance, the client has built, and for some years, regularly maintained quite a large site. Only problem is, it's all been done entirely wysiwyg and ...ahem... it looks terrible! However, basic inserting of images, text and even hyperlinks (inline as opposed to touching the main nav!) is something they are quite capable of no problem.
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Kitka
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 16:41:46
quote:
Does it simply read the template commented lines and keep out of that area? That would be neat.
Pretty much - here is a quote from the installation instructions:
quote:
Open a page in FrontPage, set your cursor where you want the dynamic content displayed and insert a "Seed"
- Insert/ Web Component/ Content Seed/ Insert a Seed
- You should see a "Web Bot" tag where the Seed was placed.
So the client/owner editing occurs in the designated area between the start of the webbot and the end of it. All the rest of the code on the page is inaccessible and safe from tampering.
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Kitka
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Kitka
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 17:00:46
quote:
Do the pages validate okay with the web-bot lines?
Don't know, but I don't see why they wouldn't.
quote:
Are extensions necessary on the server?
If you mean FPSE, yes definitely!
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Kitka
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Kitka
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 17:19:44
Just tested it, and the webbot code validates ok for 4.01 transitional, but it wasn't happy about this: <script language="php">
I'll have a look and see if that can be changed so it does validate.
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Kitka
**It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.**
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Kitka
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/18/2005 17:37:54
Changing this:
<script language="php">
</script>
to this:
<?php
?>
validates just fine.
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Kitka
**It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.**
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Nicole
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/19/2005 4:18:29
Rick,
Earlier in this thread you said:
quote:
In this instance option 2 won't be sufficient control for the client but I don't want them to ruin my design
I can understand what you mean, but really, after you've received payment for the website, the website is theirs to do with what ever they want. If in the event they ruin the design and come running to you to correct it, you really should have that covered in your contract.
Also if you have a design credit on the site and they add content to their site which you don't want to be associated with, or their changes make the site look so terrible that you don't want your byline appearing on the site any longer, that should be covered in your contract also, along with an indemnity.
It may seem like overkill, but here's a section of my standard contract which relates to these two issues.
quote:
20. Third Party or Client Page Modification
The Client may at its discretion independently edit or update their web pages, or engage a third party provider for this purpose after completion of the site as a way to control costs and avoid the expense of a Maintenance Agreement. This is always an option for Clients of Nix Design.
In the event the Client elects to exercise this option the Client undertakes to notify Nix Design in writing 72 hours prior to any modification whatsoever proposed to be distributed in the public domain, setting out the full details of the proposed modification and Nix Design in its absolute discretion reserves the right to delete its byline from the Client’s website. The Client agrees to indemnify Nix Design for any claims whether published with or without the written consent of Nix Design for third party claims inter alia in respect of breaches of the laws governing censorship and the torts of defamation, torts of deceit, breaches of trade practices act, fair trading acts, crimes acts, copyright law, trademark law, patent law, intellectual property law and/or contract law as apply from time to time in the Commonwealth of Australia and any other jurisdiction where any of the published material may be viewed.
Nix Design reserves the right to request removal of its byline from the Clients website at anytime during the twelve (12) month period from the date the website is completed and the Completion Contract has been signed. Failure to remove this byline within fourteen (14) days of the request being made may result in appropriate action being taken.
In the event the client elects to exercise this option, Nix Design will accept no liability for damages to the design or impairment of the communication function of these web pages. Time taken to repair the web pages will be assessed at the hourly rate as listed in Appendix C – Price List. Nix Design encourages Clients to obtain a Maintenance Agreement.
I've never had to enforce this, and don't ever think i'll have to, but it's there just in case. The reason for the 72 hours notice is really just to give me enough time to warn them of any consequences I can foresee emanating from their proposed changes, and/or to let them know to delete my byline while they're making the change.
Further, one of my clients have been consistently requesting that they be able to update their own site and mostly they could do that, as most of the changes are so minor that it's an annoyance for me to have to do. But, two things:
1. The person who would be entrusted with making these changes has never seemed interested in forwarding me the major updates to the site, often been very late in doing so and that's been noticed by many of their clients as their brand new site when completed earlier this year was instantly out of date as the information wasn't sent to me until months later.
2. Being a community service servicing very vulnerable people, some of the staff decided it'd be a good idea to add a section to the site where some of their clients could advertise their need for accommodation, i.e. a personal advert, and having been sent an example of what they wanted to put online, I was glad I was able to nip that idea in the bud as it could've presented a serious safety risk to their clients. Strangely even the General Manager thought it would be a good idea when I called her to voice my opinion. It didn't go ahead because of my objections, if I didn't have the chance to voice them, i.e. if the client had total control over their website, that particular client group could've been preyed upon by all sorts of nutcases.
Long enough post, but you can probably see that some clients shouldn't be able to update their own sites, so:
1. There should be provisions for this in your contract indemnifying you.
2. It really depends on the client
Nicole
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ContentSeed
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/19/2005 6:48:24
Hi.
FPSE (or even frontpage for that matter) aren't required.
I'm on V2 of the code package but the "front-end" of the site is shamefully out of date, actually it's just shameful. LOL
you'll be OK no matter what server platform you're on whether you've got frontpage or not.
HTH
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ContentSeed will change the way you do business.
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ContentSeed
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/19/2005 7:06:22
You sure can.
If what i'm thinking you want to do isn't right i can modify things a little bit to make it work for your particular case....so even if i'm mis-understanding....the answer is still yes. :-)
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ContentSeed is an excellent tool for web professionals and a tremendous convenience for their clients.
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ContentSeed
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RE: Client updated sites - general question - 11/19/2005 7:42:45
and how will the "navigation" take place?
ContentSeed will deposit or allow the editing of content within a file but doesn't actually "make" front-end files.
maybe i'm not getting it.
I know for sure that something can be done because lots of churches use it to keep an index of their sermons/ weekly hand-outs, etc.
HTH
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ContentSeed is an excellent tool for web professionals and a tremendous convenience for their clients.
ContentSeed will change the way you do business.
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Printable Version 
)... the client has amateur level web building skills using something like Net Objects Fusion. They want a large site redisgning but want to regularly update most pages themselves afterwards. 
- what do you recommend?
