Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (Full Version)

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htchmn -> Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/22/2005 15:18:52)

We've got to update each page of a 120 page section of a Frontpage website. It uses CSS for text formats, and now we want to use CSS to position each of six elements on every page. Typing div tags around each element in the Code window is proving very slow. Can anyone suggest a way to apply div tags to elements quickly in the Design window?



NEWUSER101 -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/22/2005 17:29:22)

can you give more examples?



htchmn -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/22/2005 17:52:48)

Example of a page format with 6 elements: top box for navigation, 2 boxes for pics, a heading box, a box for the main text and a side box for links. We'd previously format this in a table. CSS positioning could be so much more flexible and powerful by defining the boxes as IDs in a common stylesheet then applying the IDs to the elements - if only we could find a fast method of applying a div tag to each of these elements in Frontpage. (Speed is important when you're doing something 120 times over!)



NEWUSER101 -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/22/2005 17:58:44)

I now understand what you mean, but sorry i don't know of an easier way..



caz -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/22/2005 19:57:59)

Why don't you make a template page in the layout you want then make new pages using that and cut/ paste the relevant content between the tags. This would still have to be in code view of course.

No pain, no gain in this business ya know. [;)]



htchmn -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 4:27:46)

To lay-out new pages from a template is a very reasonable suggestion, but there's quite a lot of work in that too. I'm looking for as much gain as possible for minimum pain! If Frontpage supported div and span tags properly a few clicks of a button in Design view would be all that's needed. I was wondering if there's a perhaps non-obvious but quick way to get some div tags around the elements (this is the problem) so that they can then be given the appropriate ID. Does anyone offer some form of script for this maybe?



caz -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 6:39:20)

quote:

non-obvious but quick way


You could try Dreamweaver, it's supposed to be better, or you could hire a professional to do the job.

Or wait for the new web design tool from MS.



Donkey -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 6:40:14)

quote:

I'm looking for as much gain as possible for minimum pain!
You might be looking for a holy grail here.

Have you considered that in the time you've taken to find an easy solution you could have done most of it by now. [;)] Sometimes what looks like the difficult way is the fastest.




<edit>
typos
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htchmn -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 9:53:03)

quote:

Dreamweaver, it's supposed to be better


True, but I'm ruling out Dreamweaver for the moment for other design reasons. Thanks for your suggestion.



htchmn -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 9:56:38)

quote:

Sometimes what looks like the difficult way is the fastest


Such abundance of wisdom! It's an intriguing problem though, as there are definitely some circs where Frontpage will happily stick in some div tags. If only I could figure out when ...



caz -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 10:42:06)

It's not an intriguing problem at all, it's a matter of learning how to use your tools. Have a look in the FP Help files and you will find in Page Options>General>Use div tags when postioning etc.
Then in online assistance you could find a tutorial for using html code in Design View,
http://office.microsoft.com/training/Training.aspx?AssetID=RC010909821033&CTT=6&Origin=RC010909821033

and an abundance of other wisdom.


Oh, I nearly forgot there are excellent tutorials for beginners with Frontpage on this site too - look at the top blue bar for Tutorials/FAQ.
http://www.outfront.net/frontpagetechniques.htm



Donkey -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 11:44:21)

quote:

Such abundance of wisdom!
Alas it only appears so to those with a distinct lack of it.

My point is that if you consider the time you've wasted trying to find a shortcut that probably doesn't exist you could be finished by now.



Taz -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/23/2005 11:53:33)

There is no substitute or shortcut for hard work.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and get on with it.

I advise you roll up your sleeves and get too it as there is no fast option/short cut it seems.

As pointed out, you have spent more time avoiding the work when you prolly could have done it all by now. [image]http://ganjataz.com/Forum/images/smiles/upsidedown.gif[/image]



htchmn -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/24/2005 6:48:33)

Thanks for your very helpful post, caz.
I knocked a rough edge or two off my coding technique by speeding through the tutorials you suggested. But it all seems to confirm that Frontpage's lack of support for <div> tags in Design view is the limiting factor for my issue: there is no point-and-click way to select an element (or range of blocks etc) and wrap it in div tags that call the appropriate ID from the CSS (in the same way that you would select a formatting style from the CSS).
Instead you have to insert the div tags one-by-one in code view and type in the ID each time.
So what should be a simple task that could be delegated to a person with some word processing skills, for example, has to remain a task for the web-designer her/himself.
Conclusion: don't try to use CSS positioning with FP unless you're happy to tag each element on each page yourself. (Which, of course, many people are.)
All agree?



htchmn -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/24/2005 6:52:56)


quote:

.. it only appears so to those with a distinct lack of it.


...ouch!



c1sissy -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/24/2005 9:38:09)

quote:

Conclusion: don't try to use CSS positioning with FP unless you're happy to tag each element on each page yourself. (Which, of course, many people are.)
All agree


I use fp 2002, and my css positioning works fine.

I create my pages in a different editor and load them into fp. I have no problems wtih div elements.

I also don't use the fp wizzard to create my css files. I use a normal html blank page. Insert the css into the html view. When I click save file, I don't use the drop down box as it changes some things in there somehow. I just save the file as whatever.css and viola, a working css file.

I view in the browser, not in the preview section. I find that it doesn't view correctly in there, but not due to incorrect coding. So instead of using the preview panel, use the preview in browser, and you should be able to see things without a problem.

don't forget to make sure you have the editor set so that it doesnt' change your pages. You can do this in options somehow, I just off hand don't remember how. I'm sure though that caz's tutorial will point you in the correct direction (though at this moment I dont' have time to view what she posted)



caz -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/24/2005 13:09:26)

quote:

So what should be a simple task that could be delegated to a person with some word processing skills, for example, has to remain a task for the web-designer her/himself.


Er, that's what we get paid for - web design is not a simple clerical task, although many are under that illusion and it does have a lot of simple grinding tasks associated with it. You live with it, getting faster all the time but still the message is the same - no pain, no gain. As c1sissy has shown, we all have our own ways of working and you will too. [;)]

quote:

Instead you have to insert the div tags one-by-one in code view and type in the ID each time.


In FP2003 you can use Code Snippets to set these things up for use in code view. You can use Design View to select a block for example then switch to code view and use the Code Snippets (Ctrl+Enter) to add the code needed in the right place.



c1sissy -> RE: Working with CSS positioning in Frontpage 2003 (11/24/2005 14:26:00)

quote:

web design is not a simple clerical task

Darn, you mean I have still more to learn? [:D][;)]



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