Please Critque

Please Critque (Full Version)

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dwitcher -> Please Critque (11/22/2005 22:59:18)
http://www.fourth-and-goal.com took 10 man hours to do...really like the banner....any ideas or suggestions for upcoming sites like this?

Nicole -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 3:29:15)
So are you saying that it ONLY took 10 MAN hours? or MAN it took a whole 10 hours? Your answer may determine the responses you get.

cipriann -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 3:37:34)
I don t like the horizontal scrolling. Fix that. Other than that it looks ok.

Kitka -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 3:37:55)
quote: Your answer may determine the responses you get. [sm=rotfl.gif]

womble -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 3:50:35)
First glance, looks not too bad (though IMHO taking more time over it would produce much better results) but: - you have a mix of font styles - not good - no link on your nav back to the home page and the title/nav font is difficult to read - if you have Firefox (and if you haven't, get it) try viewing with al the images turned off - you don't see much - including the nav - never a good idea to do nav in purely images unless you use an image replacement technigue, or use alt tags - try sizing your tables in %s - you have some horizontal scroll at guite a high res, so 800x600 users are going to get quite a bit -accessibility-wise you have a few problems - missing alt tags and titles which should be fixed - lose the counter - they just show how many people haven't visited your site

dwitcher -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 13:16:21)
it only took 10 man hours...the counter was my clients idea...Texts is what they wanted...lol...They wanted me to make it at 1024 x 768...I told them that might not be a good idea but hey they paid me to do this....50 dollars an hour is nothing to sneeze at, plus they have 7 more sites to do at this rate and they just want the color scheme and information changed. Easy money.

caz -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 13:26:32)
The customer is always right when they pay. [;)]

Nicole -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 16:09:39)
...so you're prepared to knock 7 more sites like this out for $500 huh?

dpf -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 17:23:00)
we all try to give good constructive and kind criticism when asked. However, since you trumpet that you charged/earned $50 @ hour for this, I think you cheated the guy - it is rank amateurish, not Search Engine friendly and a poor representation for his business - you owe far far more and better than that for his $500.

Kitka -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 17:30:55)
As "value for money" I'd give it 1 out of 10. Your clients deserve better.

Taz -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 17:43:26)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kitka As "value for money" I'd give it 1 out of 10. Your clients deserve better. Ditto over 30 seconds to load the homepage and I'm on 2 meg broadband, are you kidding me? The screen jumps around all over the place depending what page you are on and that H-scrolling thing is most annoying. http://www.fourth-and-goal.com/webmaster.htm So what is the excuse for the page only starting half way across the page then? Client like that and want that too? Doctype? Validation? Am I right in guessing the main footwork for this site was knocked up in Fireworks?

Nicole -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 17:55:21)
quote: it only took 10 man hours...the counter was my clients idea...Texts is what they wanted...lol...They wanted me to make it at 1024 x 768...I told them that might not be a good idea but hey they paid me to do this....50 dollars an hour is nothing to sneeze at, plus they have 7 more sites to do at this rate and they just want the color scheme and information changed. Easy money. I believe the counter may have been your clients idea, but I don't believe the rest. Sorry! Did your client say they wanted Times New Roman font used with different font-weights, different colours, different alignment, some padding here, no padding there, navigational menu text that doesn't fit the available grey background, that is not compliant, accessible, and only looks anywhere near good on Internet Explorer? I don't think so. If you are going to make a business out of this, you really should learn to make your sites compliant with standards, use some creativity and take some care and pride in the sites you make. If you don't, you could end up with a web design business (somehow) producing sites for major sporting organisations that look great on their computers, but terrible on others. Like this one: http://www.australianopengolf.com/ p.s. you'll need to get Firefox to see just how bad this site is. Oh, your contact page content also actually appears at the top of your page with the template underneath. Nicole

Kitka -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 18:10:08)
The Contact page does not even have any <html> tags, nor a <title></title>, nor any <head>..</head> tags, nor a </body> tag! It is patently obvious that you have no idea what you are doing. I suggest you learn by building a hobby site for yourself and spend some time investigating how it all works before taking on unsuspecting clients.

dpf -> RE: Please Critque (11/23/2005 19:01:10)
after looking a little further, you have advertised on your customers site! quote: Like the Website? Think you might want one? Email me for a quote. that is the most disgraceful and disgusting bit of self promotion I have ever seen. I am going to watch this site for 30 days and I expect to see it fixed. If not, I am writing the owner to tell him you ripped him off

dwitcher -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 13:56:16)
Wow...so many rude remarks....Listen I never charged him anything...this is the figure that HE gave me...And they like the site very much....They want me to promote myself on the site, besides I am just starting out..The site does EXACTLY what they want, what is wrong with that?? And why would I lie about what the customer wanted?? They are happy with the site and I am still learning so why am I over charging?? I designed two sites for them, one I was not happy with so I designed a new site free of charge. I didnt stop until they were happy. I guess I shoulda said that adding the information took 10 hours but the design also took 10 hours....5 for each design i did...Geez thanks for the critique, ill be sure not to come back...

Taz -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 14:11:35)
Welcome to the step between being an amateur and a professional, as you can see, it's a big one. All the critique's you have been given are fair and constructive. Other than that, it's a matter of pride in your efforts and a desire to give people value for money.

dpf -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 14:17:05)
was I rude? I was honest - not sure if I was rude -however, I will apologize for "blasting" buy you must appreciate that there is a standard of professionalism that you ought to be giving - even if the client is too inexperienced to know the diff. When people buy cars, they know enough about cars to look under the hood - they dont about web sites as the field is too new but their lack of knowledge doesnt justify giving them an inferior product. Its ok to be new but you came on here almost glaoting -" easy money" - does that look familiar? you said it - I didnt. your pages dont even have the mandatory <html> tag to start them off. stick around and learn - we can be nice folks but you need to give people their moneys worth - when you dont, it reflects upon all of us

womble -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 14:21:24)
Dwitcher, I'm sure everyone was just having a collective bad day, and unfortunately your post probably came along at the wrong time. Most of the time the inhabitants of this place are (usually) pretty tame. Some of the points made though were valid. You have a really good banner and with a little more work and planning, consistency with fonts etc. you have got the potential for an excellent site. As Nicole said, quote: If you are going to make a business out of this, you really should learn to make your sites compliant with standards Web design is a very competitive field and if you're wanting to make a business out of this, realistically you have a lot of learning to do (and it never stops - as soon as you learn something, something else comes along). Learning's why we're all here and if you stick around you'll learn a lot.

dwitcher -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 14:54:44)
These are the things I want to learn...Unfortunately, I was self-taught...I go to a college where The only web design class that we have I helped teach....I Know nothing about standards or anything like that...My posting stating it was easy money was WAY OFF. I tried my best with this site and this is why i came here...to learn. As a 20 year old I know that I have alot to learn...there are 16 year olds out there doing a better job than me so thats why im so eager to learn....This is the best site I have done and thats not saying much....I always promise my clients a fresh new design in 6-8 months so when the time comes around I want to wow them...until then, im still a rookie. Never said I was a pro, actually I am far from it. If you have any sites that has to do with standards and anything important I need to know it would be great. And sorry I blew up too, but I took some of the critiques as rude. Thanx, DeShea

Taz -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 15:12:34)
http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp http://validator.w3.org/

womble -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 15:13:29)
Many of us around here are self taught, and a lot of that learning's been done through this place, and most of us came into web design knowing little or nothing about standards. The W3C site's the best place for all things standards related (but can be a little heavy going at times. A List Apart has some excellent articles though, as does Sitepoint. My two web design 'bibles' are Dan Cederholm's "Web Standards Solutions" and "Beginning web programming with HTML, XHTML and CSS", though I'm sure others will recommend others. Damn! Beaten to 'submit' again by Taz! [:@][;)]

Taz -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 15:16:19)
Gotta be in it to win it babes. [image]http://ganjataz.com/Forum/images/smiles/ebil.gif[/image] /throws Orange Revels at Womble for slow posting

Nicole -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 15:37:44)
quote: So are you saying that it ONLY took 10 MAN hours? or MAN it took a whole 10 hours? Your answer may determine the responses you get. quote: it only took 10 man hours.. That's what got people off on the wrong foot with this thread, poor choice of words I guess, but it really did sound to me like "hey this is easy money".

caz -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 15:38:58)
Wecome to OF DeShea I hope that you get to like it around here after your baptism of fire. [;)] A very good book that has helped a lot of us self taught know-it-alls is, HTML for the World Wide Web, Fifth Edition with XHTML and CSS: Visual QuickStart Guide (ISBN: 0-321-13007-3).By Elizabeth Castro. There is a web site for this book too, Castro Others will suggest CSS and accessibility sources, but it's best to get the (x)html under your belt first and to learn how best to use your html editor. If it's Frontpage then the Tutorials/FAQ link on the blue bar at the top of this page is a good place to start and the Search function on this site will help with any problems that you come across too. Enjoy your work and learning, Cheers, Carol

dpf -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 15:59:50)
quote: And sorry I blew up too, but I took some of the critiques as rude. fair enough DeShea _ glad you came back - no hard feelings and we will be glad to help you. lets start here..how did you build that site? did you hand code? Front Page? how?

Taz -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 16:06:54)
/bets on Fireworks

d a v e -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 16:24:01)
you could be right, Taz, there's fireworks comments in the code ;)

caz -> RE: Please Critque (11/25/2005 19:17:14)
Well spotted Dave, [:D]

dwitcher -> RE: Please Critque (11/27/2005 23:38:46)
I use fireworks, dreamweaver, and some hand coding....why?

dwitcher -> RE: Please Critque (11/27/2005 23:45:51)
Seems like validating a website is not necessary....for examplem ebay has 222 errors, mine has 9, this one has 7. What is the deal with having your website validated?

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