Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (Full Version)

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Taz -> Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/29/2005 22:54:31)

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6389077-1.html?tag=lnav



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/29/2005 23:17:32)

wow, some serious Apple slapping going on in there, me likey, heh.



traveler98 -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/29/2005 23:31:02)

Wow-

personally have always preferred AMD but am amazed at those results.




Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/29/2005 23:55:40)

quote:

Please stop. Only fanboys talk this way. There is zero benefit to running a Mac G-anything over running a Wintel box and WinXP Pro. Less productivity software is not a benefit, less compatability with the world at large isnt a feature either, less available games isnt one either. The Mac is even less appealing when compared to an AMD box like the one tested for this article, the G5 crawls next to an AMD dual core machine, and I mean crawls. 5 years ago the Mac OS was horrible and about as stable as a 3 month old baby on roller skates, everyone knows it is true, why do you think Mac went to Linux ? If I want Linux I will build a dual core AMD rig and install Linux for free, no need to pay hundreds of dollars every year for the next patch Mac blesses you with. When the Mac conversion to Intel hardware is complete, Mac will be where it belongs...the dung heap of history with all the other "also ran" OS's....


*ziiiiinNNNNNNNNNG!*

Bitchslap from hell, hehehe.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 0:13:29)

AMD has been better than Intel for the past few years (not just better cpus in term of performance, but also lower temps, and better performance for a specific price). These X2 CPUs are just amazing. If you are doing multitasking, it is the best price/performance you can get. I know you are stuck on Intel, even though all of the benches and links I posted tell you to do otherwise.

It all comes down to how much you want to pay. IMO I would pay an extra bit (I think it came down to 50 after looking at MB savings), and get the better CPU. You will actually see where your money is being used by getting the X2, whereas upgrading another 2gb of ram wouldn't show too much of a difference, nothing compared to what you would see with getting an X2.

Anyhow, you have all of the information in the MB thread, I suggest you re-read it again before you decide 100% on going with Intel. I didn't notice that you had a bit more money to spend (getting 4gb of ram means you have a pretty good sized budget). If you have money to spend on 4gb of ram, you would be stupid not to upgrade to the dual core x2 cpu.

Btw, in my latest computer, I didn't buy the extra 2gb of ram that I was thinking about, I got the x2 4400+ instead. IMO the x2 3800+ is the better buy for the price/performance, but I don't want to have to upgrade my computer for awhile, and by getting the 3800+ I know in awhile I might have to. The 4400+ had scored a lot better than the 3800+ did in the applications that I use.

I had my last computer for 3 years, and before that, an HP desktop for around 6 years.

Link to where I was discussing the amd x2 cpu with Taz



bobby -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 0:27:24)

I've always been a fan of AMD. I would see those incipid Intel commercials durring the Super Bowl or various prime time TV shows and think to myself, "There's no way I'm going to give these people any more money."

AMD has been one to push limits with real next-gen thinking rather than simply amping up the process cycles per second.

But that's my opinion. Those benchmarks are documented facts. Like BobbyD said it all comes down to what you want it for and how much you're willing to pay. Or wait six months and pay half the current price... maybe less.

For the record Mac doesn't run on Linux. It's Darwin, which is a dirivitive of BSD... another "UNIX clone" OS. And the folks at Apple polished it like you wouldn't believe. If you want a stable, reliable, fast machine and don't care about bleeding edge hardware upgrades or high end 3D gaming then a Mac is just as good a piece as any Windows or Linux machine only easier to use and running on certified hardware (decent, efficient hardware at that)

I wouldn't mind a Mac at all. [8D]

I gotta call that Jobs fellow. His check is late.

*hic*

Off for another cold (not quite warm) one

[;)]



Giomanach -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 9:23:31)

BobbyD, high end AMDs cost alot more than high end Intels in ourt lil ol' island of england. From my usual source of parts:

Intel Pentium 521 2.8Ghz Skt 775 Fsb800 1Mb Cache EMT 64 Retail - £118 (about $170-180)

If I want an AMD of same speed, and same cache size, I have to move all the way up to the San Diego models, ie:

AMD (San Diego) Athlon FX57 939Pin 1mb L2cache Retail Boxed Processor With 3 Year Warranty and Fan Included. (ADAFX57BNBOX) £709 (around $800)

We can't afford propa AMDs in this country, so we have to settle for shabby Intels, or slow AMDs



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 10:16:04)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyDouglas

I know you are stuck on Intel, even though all of the benches and links I posted tell you to do otherwise.



I'm not though, I am currently running one, that is all. That said I can't fault it as it's never put a foot wrong.

If I can find the right AMD chip for the right price at the start of 06 I will get it.
You have to remember the pricing is soemwhat backwards 'tween here and over the big wet stuff where you are as Gio points out. Though where both Gio and I shop sometimes you can get a cracking deal, it's all down to timimings. (No pun intended.)



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 12:17:58)

quote:

BobbyD, high end AMDs cost alot more than high end Intels in ourt lil ol' island of england. From my usual source of parts:

- The x2 3800+ (the one I think would be perefct for Taz) doesn't appear to be anymore expensive than it is here in the US. But Taz was saying Intel was less expensive in general earlier, so I just assumed there was a huge difference.

In the US, comparing the two prices for the cpus in the US, they have the same price difference. An extra $110 or so to upgrade to the x2, according to Newegg.

quote:

If I want an AMD of same speed, and same cache size, I have to move all the way up to the San Diego models, ie:

- Same clockspeed doesn't mean it is going to be just as fast as the Intel. You can't look at the clock speeds to compare AMD vs Intel, you have to look at benchmarks, which sucks imo.



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 13:17:22)

OK, so if I am gonna build a serious beast of a p00ter...

AMD Athlon 64 (ADA4400CDBOX) X2 4400+ socket 939 Dual Core 2.2Ghz 1Mb and 1Mb Cache is gonna whoop the arse off the The x2 3800+, right?

Now, what MOBO would I be looking at for this chip, oodles of onboard SATA ports are a good start and it's gotta be rock solid.
Having read a few reviews on some AMD/ASUS boards I hear the chipset fans suck the big sweaty ones. :o



dpf -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 13:20:11)

quote:

suck the big sweaty ones. :o
you have a way with words my man.....[:D]



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 13:32:06)

dank00 dank00 dank00 =D



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 16:13:48)

quote:

AMD Athlon 64 (ADA4400CDBOX) X2 4400+ socket 939 Dual Core 2.2Ghz 1Mb and 1Mb Cache is gonna whoop the arse off the The x2 3800+, right?

- Yeah, but you might not see the performance as much as I will. It ALL depends on what programs you are using. Based off of a benchmark that I saw (comparing the 3800+ and the 4400+, can't seem to remember the link tho), I decided to do the 4400+ instead of the 3800+. IMO for a system with not quite high of a budget, the 3800+ is a much better option when you look at the price/performance factor. The 4400+ handles multitasking a lot better than the 3800+, it is faster for programs like photoshop, ms office, outlook express, mozilla, etc.

quote:

Having read a few reviews on some AMD/ASUS boards I hear the chipset fans suck the big sweaty ones.

- Chipset fans? You mean CPU fans? Those have nothing to do with the motherboard. I haven't overclocked my cpu at all, even though I should (since my ram runs at 333), just because the 4400+ itself is already fast enough for what I do.

A lot of people argue that OCing doesn't hurt anything, but the truth is, it runs hotter. If you can get a really nice Zalaman fan/heatsink for the CPU, you will be able to OC it a lot better than most people. Also, people have said they OCed their 3800+ to the 4400+ speeds.

For the motherboard, take a look at the MSI Neo4 Platinum. They have an SLI and non SLI version. If you want to run dual video cards, you need the SLI.

If I could go back and make a change to my system, I would have got a motherboard that supports dual PSUs, and then a case that does as well. You should be able to run 4 hard drives, 2 dvd players, x2 4400+ cpu, and 4 sticks of ram without any issues on a single good PSU, however, your video card requires quite a bit of power. I almost upgraded to the 7800GT or GTX version, but since I knew I would max out my hard drives, I decided not to, just for power consumption worries.



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 17:10:14)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyDouglas

you might not see the performance as much as I will. It ALL depends on what programs you are using.


Bryce, Paintshoppro, Fireworks, Editplus or Frontpage, McAfee, WinMX + MXmoni, Trillian, winamp all at once usually.

quote:

Having read a few reviews on some AMD/ASUS boards I hear the chipset fans suck the big sweaty ones.

quote:

- Chipset fans? You mean CPU fans?


No, I mean:
Example review; "One point; the norhtbridge fan is currently noisy (spins fast)"
& a lot of people were mentioning dead/dying/very loud fans and needing to be replaced, which is no drama as it means I can gucci that up with something from Zalman.

quote:

A lot of people argue that OCing doesn't hurt anything, but the truth is, it runs hotter. If you can get a really nice Zalaman fan/heatsink for the CPU, you will be able to OC it a lot better than most people. Also, people have said they OCed their 3800+ to the 4400+ speeds.


Not interested in OC'ing at the moment, I want it running like a raver on all the good class A's outa the box before I even need to entertain the idea of OC'ing it to get some radical performance and turn up the heat inside and cook parts that just cost me the price of a new kidney.

quote:

For the motherboard, take a look at the MSI Neo4 Platinum. They have an SLI and non SLI version. If you want to run dual video cards, you need the SLI.

/noted
Only 3 reviews on it, will investigate further.

quote:

If I could go back and make a change to my system, I would have got a motherboard that supports dual PSUs, and then a case that does as well. You should be able to run 4 hard drives, 2 dvd players, x2 4400+ cpu, and 4 sticks of ram without any issues on a single good PSU, however, your video card requires quite a bit of power. I almost upgraded to the 7800GT or GTX version, but since I knew I would max out my hard drives, I decided not to, just for power consumption worries.


I am looking at one of these 2 for my next PSU for the big machine:
1st choice - http://www.enermax.co.uk/products/psu/liberty/ELT620AWT/index.asp
2nd choice - http://www.thecoolingshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=1904

I will be running:

whatever CPU Chip and 4 sticks of RAM
1 X DVD-RW & 1 X CD-RW
3 pairs of SATA drives RAID'd together (RAID O prolly), possibly 4 sets if I get a MOBO with 8 ports on it.
1 Graphics card will prolly suffice as I am not into the masive graphic games such as the FPS lot, I play stuff like Patrician III sometimes though, so nothing mad or chaotic required in the graphics department is required, unless I feel it may be worth it just to p*ss my mate off with bragging rights. [8D] Or there is a good reason for having 2.
Some internal lighting rig and a sh1tload of fans to keep the heat down.
Currently have 5 X 80mm fans, 2 X sets of dual HDD fans.
All going in my Antec Plusview 1000AMG case



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 17:55:10)

With PSUs, you can't just look at what has the most watts. You can have a 600watt psu, but a 400 watt psu at the same price might be a better choice.

According to the specs of your PSU, it looks like it be able to output enough for your computer, however, I have never heard of that brand before, nor know if that PSU is any good. I think that is aroud $70 US, which here would be considered a low end PSU. PSUs needs to have a strong name behind them, else you are taking a HUGE chance.

Try to find some reviews on that company before you go buy the PSU. I'm not a PSU expert, and couldn't tell you if it is good or not, I just know that it isn't a brand I have heard before.

quote:

3 pairs of SATA drives RAID'd together (RAID O prolly)

- Are these the raptors? Btw, there is a thread around here somewhere that explains different raid options in detail.

quote:

1 X DVD-RW & 1 X CD-RW

- With the prices of DVD drives these days, you might be better off with two dvd drives, instead of one dvd drive and one cd drive. I got the BenQ 1640a for $38 shipped, at the time, these drives were considered one of the best ones available, and THE BEST for the $40-$60 price range.

Just remember that you will usually be limited by something. The MSI Neo4 Platinum doesn't like running 4 sticks of ram. It will change your timings from 400 to 333. Also, your case only has space for 4 hard drives, meaning your motherboard will have 4 empty slots.

quote:

Example review; "One point; the norhtbridge fan is currently noisy (spins fast)"
& a lot of people were mentioning dead/dying/very loud fans and needing to be replaced, which is no drama as it means I can gucci that up with something from Zalman.

- The motherboard doesn't have a fan... any reference to this?



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 18:27:14)

quote:

your case only has space for 4 hard drives, meaning your motherboard will have 4 empty slots.


Care to explain how I have 2 SATA and 2 ATA HDD's already in my case and running and if I took out the underslung fans on my SATA's I could easily fit in another 2 HDD's then dude? ;)

I Could prolly fit another 2 HDD's with relative ease underneath the HDD carriages supplied also. :)

quote:

Try to find some reviews on that company before you go buy the PSU


From the reviews I've already read, both brands are good, especially the Enermax one, the Hiper one isn't so shabby either.
Though I was mainly looking at both for the cable management systems they have as that is a pretty dencet feature, though I still keep looking at the Antec range of PSU's.

I know enough to get the concept more watts does not = better PSU, which is why I was looking at the 2 PSU's I linked too.

As for having 1 CD-RW and one DVD-RW, I always prefer to one of each. One does music the other does DVD's as they are intended for. Just personal choice. (:

quote:

Are these the raptors?


Not sure if Raptors are gonna be worth the time and effort if SATA 2 comes into play anytime soon, even @ 10,000 RPM they are only gonna push 150 mbps where as SATA 2 is looking at pumping out 300, will wait more on that outcome before I splash cash on what could be a loser either way, till that issue is sorted I will run normal SATA's 0 RAID'd together together in pairs for now.

quote:

- The motherboard doesn't have a fan... any reference to this?


Read the reviews people are posting at Ebuyer about the AMD sockey MOBO's, the board you mentioned was the one I quoted about above and the ASUS board reviews had a lot of people saying something similer.

quote:

MSI K8N Diamond SKT939 nForce4 Onboard Sound/LAN DDR - Retail Box:


The south bridge is poorley cooled with a very loud fan.


quote:

Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe S939 NF4 SLI ATX - Sound 2xgln 1394 USB2 SATA:

My chipset fan on this board runs at almost 10000rpm and is extremely loud. Anybody else having this problem?

Further to my previous review i decided to replace the chipset fan for a quieter one.

This motherboard has the loudest chipset fan of all N4 boards running at almost 10000rpm and some some are failing. Asus are aware of this and are sending out replacement fans which run at 5000rpm and are much quieter.


Maybe ASUS have stopped knocking them out but several complaints across several MOBO's does not increase my confidence, seems to be a common issue?

Also, I'd rather have a MOBO that can take 4 GB of RAM (as that is pretty standard these days), and run it at top spec without OC'ing, I'm of the mind better to have it and be able to use it than need it and not have it available, guess that is just the military guy in me but it always stands me in good stead for most everything.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 18:32:45)

quote:

Care to explain how I have 2 SATA and 2 ATA HDD's already in my case and running and if I took out the underslung fans on my SATA's I could easily fit in another 2 HDD's then dude? ;)

- You would have to ask why the manuf. says there are 4 hard drive bays.

quote:

From the reviews I've already read, both brands are good, especially the Enermax one, the Hiper one isn't so shabby either.
Though I was mainly looking at both for the cable management systems they have as that is a pretty dencet feature, though I still keep looking at the Antec range of PSU's.

- As long as the name is good, you will be fine with the Enermax one, as it seems to have very good specs.

quote:

Not sure if Raptors are gonna be worth the time and effort if SATA 2 comes into play anytime soon, even @ 10,000 RPM they are only gonna push 150 mbps where as SATA 2 is looking at pumping out 300, will wait more on that outcome before I splash cash on what could be a loser either way, till that issue is sorted I will run normal SATA's 0 RAID'd together together in pairs for now.

- Raptors are fast because of their lower seek (I/O) times.

I'll be back later to finish responding.



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 18:40:59)

The case comes with 2 removable carriages for easy install/removal of HDD's, each one can take 3 HDD's a piece and there is a mass of room on the floor of the case even underneath the PCI slot if you didn't use all of them up to rig up more if you so wished. As I said above, under the HDD carriage you could rig up 3 more HDD's if you wanted. That was one of the reasons I bought the case, it's a SOHO file server case so it's pretty big and roomy inside.[:)]

As for the Raptor Vs SATA II, till that develops I will wait on, while raptors may have the edge on getting going I am often shifting 15GB chunks of data around from drive to drive, so I'd rather the drives that had the long range speed than just setting off fast if you get me.
As it is I am happy with the performance of 2 SATA drives striped together, in fact I was giggling like a loon when I saw how fast installing hefty Apps and Progs was taking when I first got them installed and started setting up my OS drive. [8D] Photoshop added in like 20 seconds, I was like "Holy fux0rama!"[:D]



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (11/30/2005 21:33:23)

quote:

The case comes with 2 removable carriages for easy install/removal of HDD's...

- Sounds like a good choice for the case.

quote:

As for the Raptor Vs SATA II, till that develops I will wait on, while raptors may have the edge on getting going I am often shifting 15GB chunks of data around from drive to drive, so I'd rather the drives that had the long range speed than just setting off fast if you get me.

- (Don't quote me on this reply, but I am pretty sure this is how things are setup) Hard drives are limited by how fast the I/O is. The raptors are fast because of their I/O speeds, it doesn't matter if they could do 100000000gb/s, they are still limited by the I/O, thus resulting is no performance gain by going to SATA II. There are SATA II drives on the market today, but since they don't have any better seek times, or are greater than 7200 rpms, the raptors will still be faster.

The only problem I see with raid 0, is that it only takes one drive to die, before you lose ALL of your data. If data is especially important to you, then you might want to invest more money into hard drives. I spent almost $700 for my raptors, just to be able to do raid 0+1. Its's quite a bit of money, but I wanted the raptor speed, with twice the space, and have it striped and mirrored.

Have you done any searching around on SATA II yet? It might be a good idea to read up on SATA II.



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 0:36:04)

This is what I mean, I am prolly gonna hang fire for a while and see how long before SATA 2 Raptors or whatever name they give them arrive on the scene. I kind of get the feeling at the moment we are in the lull before the new technology storm. I don't wanna invest major beer tokens and then a few months later be totally left behind in either CPU or HDD technology when they roll out the new kit for 2006. That would miff me right off and also leave me skint and unhappy, I can live with being skint but with toys that make me happy. =]

As I have said before, I just went with RAID 0 for now as only my OS drive is RAID'd up and if one goes down, so be it, I only lose my OS and core Apps and progs. It's just a case of a reformat/reinstall and away I go again. Which to me is no drama at all, it's a few hours toying about setting up again, which as far as I am concerned is good practice and each and every time I do set up again I do something new to make things more efficient and set things up better for how I need my system to run.

When I start running massive drives and start placing more eggs in one basket then I will be more concerned with back up requirements and safety nets and will go for the more stable RAID options available. I need to invest in more SATA drives yet as I only have 2 (Well 3 actually but not sure if the 3rd one is running copasetic) and for my needs I will be getting 2 X 300GB SATA's soonish to replace my ATA HDD's, as Raptors ain't up that big yet it's another reason to hang back a while and build other areas of the p00ter up.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 1:42:25)

quote:

see how long before SATA 2 Raptors or whatever name they give them arrive on the scene.

- Haven't heard anything at all about more development on the raptor line. If you don't mind waiting 6-10 months, then that's fine, but I doubt you will see anything other just slight drops in price for the raptors. Just don't expect to think there is just going to be a new thing available at a reasonable price. The latest deal on the raptors is an 80gb, but those are only made for Dell, and can only be found on eBay, and the price is quite expensive (some cases twice as much).

The only drive that has been able to take advantage of SATA II is the Seagate Barracuda 7200.9, but that still doesn't offer anywhere near the amount of speed the raptor has.

quote:

As I have said before, I just went with RAID 0 for now as only my OS drive is RAID'd up and if one goes down, so be it, I only lose my OS and core Apps and progs.

- Makes sense.

The longer you wait, the better prices you will see. Especially if there is a new line brought out. I would think that Intel CPUs will go down in price once they release a few affordable dual core CPUs.

Have you thought at all about running a server board?



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 3:28:44)

I can currently pick up the 74GB Raptors for £117.49 a piece. I wouldn't bother with the 36.7GB ones at £78.45.

quote:

Have you thought at all about running a server board?


It's where I am working myself up too eventually, hence the jump from flashy desktop case to SOHO file server, just going up bit by bit, heh.

Learning my way through all this from the bottom up, and having to pay my way through the stages so I at least gain some knowledge along the way.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 11:23:30)

What's your budget on everything?



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 12:36:45)

There isn't one really, but I can't buy everything in one go, I have to buy bit by bit as I can afford a part or component.



yogaboy -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 18:52:09)

I'm surprised anyone still believed that Intel was anywhere near AMD in terms of performance, AMD's been wiping the floor with Intel since they released the first Thunderbirds way back when (remember the Beatles?[:)])

I'm even more surprised that anyone is even considering overclocking, let alone talking about it??!!! OCing was the sort of thing that was needed when peeps were still running 300mhz processors, it's meaningless now especially, if you're not 17, from S Korea with a sponsorship deal and making money from pro gaming. Buy more memory and use DOS, it's 1000's of times quicker.

Lastly, I'm not surprised anyone is slagging OSX - there's a lot of ignorance out there...









Darkside -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 19:17:04)

See taz told you there was no need to overclock is what you will get from <MC> but then i never liked the sound of it when you mentioned it to me.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/1/2005 19:33:09)

quote:

I'm even more surprised that anyone is even considering overclocking, let alone talking about it?

- The x2 3800+ will OC to the speeds of the 4400+. You can save the $200 on the CPU.

The only way to get my ram back to 400 from 333, is to OC. A small OC on the CPU shouldn't make too much of a difference, just hope it will help with the ram.



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/2/2005 1:29:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkside

See taz told you there was no need to overclock is what you will get from <MC> but then i never liked the sound of it when you mentioned it to me.


I'm not after OC'ing my system really, as I state above I would rather it went like a Lamborghini on heat on it's own outa the box, but there is still no harm learning how it should be done and safely at that is there. =P

I don't ever wanna have to give CPR to someone but I learned how to do it just in case it was needed. [;)]



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/2/2005 1:33:18)

I don't know much about it, but this is a pretty good guide that will help explain it. As well as this.



Taz -> RE: Hey bobby - AMD Vs Intel in a prize fight (12/2/2005 1:46:29)

Already been and checked out the first one a while back, thanks for that and the second one though. =]



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