Another alt attribute question...

Another alt attribute question... (Full Version)

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Nicole -> Another alt attribute question... (1/18/2006 17:53:48)
If an image has a caption beneath it already, obviously adding the caption again to the alt attribute won't make sense to users using screen readers. But just say the caption beneath the image says: "Instrument breaking up and removing pieces of clouded lens." Is it okay do you think to add the alt attribute to the image as follows: alt="This is a diagram of the " I know it's not very discriptive by itself, but when read by a screen reader it'll say: "This is a diagram of the....Instrument breaking up and removing pieces of clouded lens." Does that make sense? Edit: As Internet Explorer insists on showing the alt attribute to everyone, that solution is going to look silly in that browser when somebody hovers over the image. Are there any solutions to this that anyone knows? Nicole

BeTheBall -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/18/2006 21:05:25)
To fix the IE problem, add an empty title attribute. (title=""). As far as the other issue, I am not sure you can count on screen readers to read the alt text and then the caption in the exact order you place them. I would stay on the safe side and put meaningful text all within the alt attribute.

Nicole -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/18/2006 21:10:04)
Thanks Duane, that's a great solution to the IE problem. Trouble with putting all text in the alt attribute is though that the screen reader will read it from there, and then from the caption beneath the image? Nicole

spitfire -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/19/2006 6:22:26)
Can you draw any inspiration from The BBC site?

Nicole -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/19/2006 6:33:17)
Well I know my brain's quite frazzled at the moment, but can you possibly point me to where you think that site might be able to help? I started the screen-reader on it and it just read everything under each of those top images in one long sentence. Nicole p.s. hopefully in a day or so I'll be able to post a link to the exact problem I'm having.

spitfire -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/19/2006 6:54:36)
You were asking about alt text and captioned images. There is a demonstration. You don't say which screen-reader you used but unless a piece of text is punctuated, most screen-readers will just read straight through. So your screen-reader would have answered the question about saying "This is a diagram of the....Instrument breaking up and removing pieces of clouded lens." How many web developers think to punctuate properly? Consider how screen-readers read straight through unpunctuated alt text, header text and such like and onto content text. It is often a surprise to throw screen-readers at ones own site and listen to it as if it was the first time. I know it used to be for me.

Nicole -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/19/2006 7:12:35)
Okay thanks Spit, I'll have to have a real look at it in the morning....getting late now. You're right though, this site is a real eye-opener/learning curve for me. Images with captions appearing directly under a heading, therefore being the first piece of text read after that heading and before the visible text is read by a screen-reader. I'm trying to get the screen-reader (Foxy-Voice) to only read the info once (hence my example above) as otherwise it'll read the alt text once and then the caption and then begin to read the visible paragraph. So, the alt text and caption have to make sense as the first thing read before the visible text and to make it harder, Internet Explorer wants to display alt text for sighted users (thanks to Duane though that's not a problem anymore). Nicole

spitfire -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/19/2006 13:55:16)
That's the art of good web authorship or web copy-writing. When you get a chance to give the BBC site a closer examination, I hope you will pick up how they have used alt text and the caption beneath the picture to give a fuller (but non-repetitive) umh.. picture[;)]. And just to set the cat among the pidgeons... FoxyVoice is a Firefox only screen-reader emulator. It is said to emulate the JAWS screen-reader. It's not easy to test it against JAWS because JAWS does not work with Firefox. FoxyVoice assumes a number of JAWS verbosity settings which are not necessarily the default (out of the box) settings. For instance, if a JAWS user wants, among other things, alt/title/abbr/acronym text to be read out, s/he has to go several layers into the verbosity settings to turn them on. Many never find them, but similarly do not know that they are missing out on anything - and we work so hard to get them right[:(] Also, in case of interest: By default, JAWS reads the screen text for links. Therefore, the finely crafted titles, access keys etc on links that we also agonize over may be lost on many JAWS users. Other major commercial screen-readers have their own and similar little foibles. As seems to be the case FoxyVoice is not going to be updated for compatibility with Firefox 1.5 and later and just may become a commercial product - caveat emptor. Just to make accessible web development more of a challenge[:D]

Nicole -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/19/2006 18:49:52)
Digressing a bit for a minute, this is what I also have trouble with.... The following paragraph appears on the site under the heading "Refraction". That paragraph is paired with an image of the instrument mentioned in the paragraph. Refraction This is the test the eye doctor uses to determine your exact prescription. During a refraction, the doctor puts an instrument called a phoropter in front of your eyes and shows you a series of lens choices. He or she will then ask you which of the two lenses in each choice looks clearer. What alt text can I put in there that describes the image and makes sense when it's read in combination with the paragraph text? Why can't I just leave the alt text blank in this case as the image is of an instrument that is expllained in the paragraph next to it? Is it because partially sighted people will see something like an image and "expect" to be told what it is? Nicole Edit:: If I put Figure numbers next to all the images on the site it may be easier and make more sense. Would the above paragraph make more sense if it was read like this by a screen reader? Refraction "Figure 10 shows the Phoropter,, the instrument used during refraction." This is the test the eye doctor uses to determine your exact prescription. During a refraction, the doctor puts an instrument called a phoropter in front of your eyes and shows you a series of lens choices. He or she will then ask you which of the two lenses in each choice looks clearer. p.s. yet to look in depth at the BBC website.

spitfire -> RE: Another alt attribute question... (1/19/2006 19:12:08)
What about? alt="Phoropter, a sophisticated instrument that enables lens switching and testing." title="" Or just leave it as null alt text - visually-impaired or partially-sighted people have probably been tested with one many times - they may not know what it is called though. Edit: typed before your edit but I believe it is still valid. "Figure 10" doesn't seem to me to be within the "spirit" of alt text - it's more of a text-book technique. **** PS I thought I'd steer clear of "microelectromechanical systems-based adaptive optics phoropter"[:D] ***Edit 20 January Aha, I see, by pure chance, it was Donna Smillie, of the RNIB, who suggested you did that yesterday - well there we are[;)]

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