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DAK1220
Posts: 82
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Starting at absolute scratch - 3/8/2006 13:42:11
Hey,
I'm a new owner of FrontPage and the Que manual, "Using FrontPage 2003. " I have a moderate level of basic computer literacy, but after skimming through maybe half the manual in the last 24 hours, I can't quite figure out how to get started making a basic page. I feel like I am beginning to understand some of the details, but what good is that if I can't even get started?
I have imported a couple samples just to look at the code (not to use without permission). But it's still above me how to get from a blank white sheet to a functional page. Is there some little book or web page that can take a newbie by the hand and show him, step by step, how to construct a sample page with, say, a full-width graphic banner at the top, a box of labels and buttons down the left side, a text area in the center, a verical array of photos down the right side, and a row of links at the bottom? That's a pretty basic page, and eventually I'd like to do some really fancy things. But this honking 1038-page manual doesn't even tell me how to do a simple thing like make a decent page from scratch.
Any help out there?
DK
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jcm001
Posts: 113
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/8/2006 14:18:25
Here's a book that should help: Head First HTML with CSS & XHTML. By: Elisabeth Freeman & Eric Freeman. Publisher: O'Reilly.
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DAK1220
Posts: 82
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/8/2006 15:54:28
Oh, and is there a free or cheap utility somewhere that I can download and use to convert a Word or WordPerfect text banner into a GIF file?
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DAK1220
Posts: 82
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/8/2006 20:30:31
OK, now this is pretty frustrating. I'm still trying to puzzle out the secrets of the "intuitive interface" (heavy sarcasm intended.)
For example, one of my immediate goals is to create a nice pagetop banner. I click on Insert and see a tag that says "Page Banner" and I think "Oh, there it is!! And I insert a page banner and fill out the little dialog box and click OK and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS. And no obvious clue as to what I didn't do.
Oh, wait. There's text in the non-banner that says "Add this page to the navigation structure to display a page banner here" Cool! OK, I'll just. . .I'll just. . .um, HOW do I add this page to the navigation structure???
This all reminds me of the weekend after I brought home my very first computer for business use--a fancy new Epson IBM/XT compatible with a 40MB hard drive and WordPerfect 4.2. It took me over an hour to figure out how to get a page to print. (I admit, though. . .it was fun, even though my mother was ticked at me for disappearing into the basement all weekend when she was visiting from out of town.)
But I'm too old for such silliness now, and I don't wanna spend all my free time for the next week figuring out how to do things that will take ten seconds to do a second time once I figure out the secrets. I want INSTANT GRATIFICATION!!
OK, I'm stopping to take a long, slow breath here. There, that's better. . .
Is there anybody out there who can give me a few simple instructions on the easy beginner stuff??
(Thanks)
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dpf
Posts: 7121
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From: India-napolis
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/8/2006 20:36:36
quote:
Is there anybody out there who can give me a few simple instructions on the easy beginner stuff?? caz did above - the tutorials
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Dan
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golfer
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From: Bath, Wiltshire, UK
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/9/2006 8:31:51
You don't become an Electrician in one day. You start at the VERY beginning.
Frontpage is a very useful tool but you must learn to use it before embarking on building a reasonable looking web site.
Use the help section contained in Frontpage. It tell you step by step how to add background colour, tables, images, navigation etc.
Don't bother with adding a theme. Once you have the basics if is highly unlikely that you will ever want to use them.
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Ian
'You'll miss me when I've gone'
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d a v e
Posts: 4087
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: England (but live in Finland now)
Status: online
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/9/2006 9:06:19
there's these too
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David Prescott
Gekko web design
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DAK1220
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/9/2006 9:43:03
quote:
ORIGINAL: golfer
You don't become an Electrician in one day. You start at the VERY beginning.
Frontpage is a very useful tool but you must learn to use it before embarking on building a reasonable looking web site.
Don't bother with adding a theme. Once you have the basics if is highly unlikely that you will ever want to use them.
Now, that part about themes is an interesting Catch 22 (apparently). The manual advises that themes aren't really necessary--use templates. Fair enough. But then it appears that in order to place a page banner, you MUST have a theme chosen. So how do you place a banner without a theme? That's the kind of question I'm puzzling over.
I wish I could just build something in WordPerfect and slap it on the web with the built-in web publish feature. I've been creating good-looking mail-out glossy color flyers with WordPerfect for years. Designing a site on paper is no problem. The advanced bells and whistles really aren't that difficult, either. But the simple task of finding out how to get FrontPage to put things where I want them is turning out to be the big challenge.
So again I ask: can anybody tell me, or point me at a tutorial that will tell me, how to get a box of text running down the left side of the page the way this forum site does it? (That one task will be enough for now.)(I'll check out the sites that Dave posted as soon as I can get to them this morning. Thanks, Dave!)
DK
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DAK1220
Posts: 82
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/9/2006 11:13:58
quote:
ORIGINAL: womble
This is your problem. Designing on paper isn't the same as designing on the web - it's not just a question of cut and paste. As others have said, you can't learn it overnight and to get something that's going to stand up. WYSIWYG isn't always true - and certainly isn't true if you want a site that's cross-browser compatible - you need to have at least a basic understanding of how the code works.
If you check out the code for this page ("view source" in your browser) you'll see the page is a table layout and some elements of the page are 'includes'. As for adding a column down the left, the easiest way (assuming you've already got some sort of table layout set up) is to add a column on the left for your text. The tutorials that Caz directed you to here on OutFront explain clearly the basics (and more advanced) techniques used to build tables and table layouts in FP - Creating tables with FrontPage.
Womble, that is EXACTLY the pointer I was looking for. Tables! Now I know where to BEGIN. (Seems I was on the right track already, and didn't know it).
(The other stuff about a web not being WYSIWYG and looking different on other browsers than it looks on my machine. . . I grok that. The manual was clear on the concept.)
Thank you.
< Message edited by DAK1220 -- 3/9/2006 11:41:39 >
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caz
Posts: 3520
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: Somewhere south of Chester, UK
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/9/2006 11:36:10
quote:
So again I ask: can anybody tell me, or point me at a tutorial that will tell me, how to get a box of text running down the left side of the page the way this forum site does it? (That one task will be enough for now.)(I'll check out the sites that Dave posted as soon as I can get to them this morning. Thanks, Dave!)
In the tutorials here http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/design/layout.htm
And if you miss the link in that one - http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/fp_techniques/tables1.htm
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Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will dance, or more on your keyboard.
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I remember when it took less than 4hrs to fly across the Atlantic.
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DAK1220
Posts: 82
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/9/2006 11:43:11
Thanks, Caz. I'm getting somewhere now.
DK
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dpf
Posts: 7121
Joined: 11/12/2003
From: India-napolis
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/9/2006 13:06:20
quote:
then your easiest option is to get a template easiest option is to hire someone who has invested years in learning. "page banner" can mean a lot of things - apparently FP has something they call page banner connected to themes but more commonly a page banner is a graphic you build in graphics software then place it on the page with table or css or include file.
be honest - starting with you ibm xt - there was a long learning curve to building the beauties in word perfect. the web is a different medium and takes time
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Dan
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dpf
Posts: 7121
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From: India-napolis
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/10/2006 10:01:13
quote:
Wait 'till you read the CSS forum. and/or asp
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Dan
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DAK1220
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/10/2006 10:43:43
quote:
ORIGINAL: dpf
quote:
Wait 'till you read the CSS forum. and/or asp
Oh, I can hardly wait. . .
My goal is to get a really SIMPLE small business site up in the next couple of days. Just enough to be minimally functional.
After that I'll take my time and make it better and better. But first I gotta get off the ground. And you guys have helped enormously! Thanks!
DK
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DAK1220
Posts: 82
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RE: Starting at absolute scratch - 3/13/2006 14:57:44
Well, here it is:
www.2hcs.com
Rough, but almost functional. All photo items should be considered place markers, and some of the buttons don't lead anywhere yet. And the "contact" page doesn't actually work yet, because I haven't set up the e-mail addresses. But using a table to set up the home page was something I just didn't understand. I would have gotten there eventually, but when you absolutely, positively, have to have it. . .well, at least sometime this week. . .you guys were a big help. Thanks.
DK
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