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Proprietor
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Copyrights versus time management - 3/11/2006 14:57:02
I've read elsewhere in this forum that one never needs permission to post a link to someone else's site on their own. I believe this to be true.
However, from my own perspective, I believe that it would be both cheaper and easier, in the long run, to copy material from somebody else's site to my own, and then provide 'internal' links to that material on my own servers.
Specifically, when I wish to cite a report, or data, produced by somebody else, if I provide a link to that person or organization's site, but, at some point in the future, they move that document, my link goes dead. Ultimately, from the standpoint of consistent reliability, I think it would be easier to simply put a copy of that report on my own server, provided, of course, that attribution is properly handled.
Obviously, this approach is unsuited to commercial material, but I don't have any links to commercial stuff anyway...
I'm wondering if anyone is aware of problems experienced by website owners when they have copied material and redistributed it, as opposed to simply provided links to it?
In a similar vein, some of the reports I would like to load onto my own servers and link to were produced by government departments, hence are, in my opinion, public, therefore can be copied and redistributed freely. However, that's my opinion, as opposed to the government's... Is anyone aware of issues that have arisen over similar use of governmentally produced data?
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dpf
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From: India-napolis
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RE: Copyrights versus time management - 3/11/2006 15:26:33
government material (at least US) is definitely public domain and can be used freely. Private material - even "non commercial" cannot. you can use a short excerpt with proper quotations and sites to original source but beyond that permission would be needed.
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Proprietor
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RE: Copyrights versus time management - 3/11/2006 16:30:13
Thanks for the reply, Sir.
I'm not sure, however, that I phrased my question properly, so I'd like to rephrase it...
Legally speaking, if you post an article on a server and make it available for download to the public, does a person who obtains a copy this way have the right to redistribute it, without seeking explicit, 'written' permission, or is it necessary to seek explicit permission, even when it is clearly implied by the owner of that material?
I'll use my own work as an example: I WANT people to take copies of all of it, or any portion of it, and use it for their own purposes.
My own application is a little diffeent, but this is not unusual; many, many people want their material to be distributed to the widest possible audience, which is why they put it on the web to begin with. Obviously, content owners must retain control over their own material, and putting a copy of someone else's material on your own server deprives them of the opportunity to remove it from public circulation, should they so choose, but for many, many authors, writers, academics and others, this is not an issue, in practice.
What I'm really wondering was whether or not anyone has gone the route of uploading other people's material to their own servers, as opposed to providing links to that material, in order to make site management easier, and, if they had, have they had any complaints or problems?
Sorry it took so many words just to ask a fairly simple question. Sometimes, I just can't stop typing.............
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womble
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RE: Copyrights versus time management - 3/11/2006 16:45:55
quote:
ORIGINAL: Proprietor
Legally speaking, if you post an article on a server and make it available for download to the public, does a person who obtains a copy this way have the right to redistribute it, without seeking explicit, 'written' permission, or is it necessary to seek explicit permission, even when it is clearly implied by the owner of that material?
Unless it's clearly identified as public domain and copyright free, with distribution rights, you don't have a right to put it on your own servers and distribute it without permission. Just because it's posted in the public domain doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want with it. I'd suggest that if you start you copying other people's content onto your servers without their consent, even if the source is acknolwedged, you're likely to end up in hot water.
As an example, a site I worked on had a large number of articles written for it. The articles were written specificallly for the web, and the site's owners intended the articles to be available widely, hence them being posted on the website, but that didn't extend to other people placing the content on their servers. The site had a clear copyright policy, terms of use and it was clearly stated that the articles couldn't be reproduced without the consent of the authors.
When we're all chasing traffic it seems a little illogical to let others post your content on their site, thus depriving you of traffic.
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Proprietor
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RE: Copyrights versus time management - 3/11/2006 17:23:04
Thanks for the post;
I agree with and recognize everything you pointed out. However, my own application is political, as opposed to commercial, which is very different.
With respect to commercial material, or material posted on a commercial site, if I were to link to such material, I will stick with links only, as opposed to downloading and redistributing.
In a political context, however, an entirely different dynamic comes into play. Honesty is not a policy, it is a practice...
If I wish to quote you, for any reason, as a matter of policy, I want to ensure that your quote is NEVER taken out of context. This applies whether I am arguing with you or against you.
In a similar vein, as a matter of policy, I want to ensure that you never end up being taken out of context simply because you have upgraded your servers, or redone your site, and I haven't bothered to fix the link to your material.
From my standpoint, the easiest thing to do is take a copy of whatever you have put into the public domain, that I am quoting from, and put it on my own server, so that I can reasonably guarantee both you, as the producer of that content, and the public, as it's 'consumer', that the context will remain available at least as long as the quote itself.
With respect to fairness in competition, I intend to supplement any such material with live links to the content owner's own site. I'm just trying to learn basic SEO right now, but from what little I've learned so far, this is something that most website operators appreciate.
Politically speaking, for me, it is a basic matter of fairness. There is nothing I can do to stop you from quoting me out of context, but there are a number of things I can do to ensure that I never quote anyone else out of context.
My desire to download articles written by other people and put them on my own servers is driven by recognition of my own lack of technical competence, and time. Simply put, if I fail to update my own links properly, I deprive anyone I'm quoting of their own context, because a visitor to my own site may not be able to locate the full article on his own, and, in practice, most of the time, won't bother. In a similar vein, if I make changes to my own site which render those links inoperable, and also fail to realize I've rendered them inoperable, I've done much the same thing --> effectively removed the context.
Which raises another question...
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Mojo
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RE: Copyrights versus DMCA - 3/11/2006 17:45:13
Your desires, no matter how innocent, don't matter. The moment someone makes an original work it is protected ( at least in the US ) by copyright laws.
DMCA
All service providers are covered by the DMCA as long as they follow it and from my experience most providers respond very well to properly filled out DMCA complaints.
Since you're talking about running a political site I imagine you have opponents with strong opinions. I see two things happening if you start STEALING other peoples work. 1) You become known as a thief when your opponents spread the news on your copyright infringments and 2) The DMCA - your pages and site are systematically removed from the search engines and internet as even your host will disable your account.
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dpf
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RE: Copyrights versus time management - 3/11/2006 18:26:45
quote:
the easiest thing to do is take a copy of whatever you have put into the public domain, that I am quoting from public domain can mean many things..i suspect you mean it in the context of "its on the web for the public to view" however, if the document/writing on a site has a copyright notice on the pag, it is not "public domain" in the sense that it can be freely used and distributed. sporting events are on tv and you can watch, right? but they also read a disclaimer.."any rebroadcast, republish or other use is prohibited unless specifically authorized"
If, as you say, you WANT people to take your stuff, simply post a notice accordingly
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Proprietor
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RE: Copyrights versus time management - 3/12/2006 2:30:31
I gather from your response that I should simply bite the bullet, and commit to keeping my own links updated, regardless...
I just want to point out that my intention was not to steal anything, from anyone; indeed, quite the opposite. My intent was to ensure that quotes are never effectively taken out of context simply because a file has been moved.
In politics, the problems in practice are often very different from those in commercial undertakings. In politics, being quoted out of context, or being bashed by someone who has deliberately made it impossible to defend oneself, is a significant problem. In business, the problem is more often one of companies trying to make a buck off of other people's work. In a similar vein, but from the opposite perspective, in politics, a great deal of 'work' that is done is never 'sold' to anyone, unlike novels, or books, or even journalism. The objective of many political writers is to get their work in front of as many people as possible, hence any opportunity to increase audience size is welcome, particularly when there is no marginal cost to oneself --> free advertising is the only advertising many political writers can afford.
Based on your advice, however, I believe I will have to make active submission a requirement, meaning I will offer anyone I wish to quote the opportunity to place the body of work from which the quote is drawn on my own servers, and require some manner of 'proof of ownership' prior to posting. I had planned on something far more informal, but if your response is characteristic, I'm going to have to go the signed agreement route.
Thanks for your time, Sir.
Mark
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Proprietor
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RE: Copyrights versus time management - 3/12/2006 2:45:08
Thanks for your advice.
Your own advice mirrors what everyone else is saying. My own perspective is political, as opposed to commercial, and, to some degree, I'm projecting my own desires onto others. Personally, I worry more about being taken out of context than I do about copyright issues, in part because I've expressly waived my own IP rights to my own work.
I do believe, however, that I need to adjust my own policy; there seems to be a pretty clear consensus.
"Land mines are only truly dangerous if you don't know they're there."
Thanks for pointing out this one to me...
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