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loversinc -> articles and seo (5/9/2006 13:12:26)

hi does anyone know if posting articles on my site will help with SEO ? free-online-games-player.co.uk



Reflect -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 10:39:17)

Anything that is on genre to your sites theme will help. It makes people want to link to your site from their site, naturally without having to beg for a link to be given.

Now I also believe hand in hand with the above is back links. This is where you get other sites and directories to point to your site. I believe you should rotate the verbiage of the links to make it appear more natural.

These are only two steps out of the "big picture" so there are other things you can do to get boosts in the SERPs. Poke around using this sites search to find some of those.

Take care,

Brian



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 10:53:19)

As long as back links alone can rank a page for terms not even found on the page - they are the most important aspect. Course, it's much easier to write content than to find quality back links.



Reflect -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 13:18:46)

With quality content natural linking should occur for the long haul.

Take care,

Brian



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 13:47:16)

quote:

With quality content natural linking should occur for the long haul.


In theory, that should work. The search reps preach it and many webmasters have great hope that it's true. But, there are a few things to think about...

1) If you have clients they are (most likely) not going to be willing to wait 12 to 36 months before results *may* show up.

2) How will people find your site and send natural links your way if your not ranking in the search engines? You have to be found before people will link.

3) Competitor sites that have content AND are aggressive in building back links. The same natural back links that your site enjoys will also come to the competition. After 12 months they will be far ahead.

4) You can look at almost any competitve industry and see that back links are the power behind the site. Without content, you can still rank for most terms, but without back links your site is going nowhere.





womble -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 14:17:09)

quote:

4) You can look at almost any competitve industry and see that back links are the power behind the site. Without content, you can still rank for most terms, but without back links your site is going nowhere.

I know this is an old argument and I really don't want to get into the ins and outs of it (and I freely admit I know little about the serious SEO stuff) but without quality content visitors are quickly going to lose interest in your site. Without decent content whether you've got backlinks or not and your site's going nowhere.

Posting articles on your site certainly can't hurt you in terms of SEO and as Brian says, if you're in it for the long haul it'll pay off, especially if you can keep visitors coming back to your site with new content.



Taz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 14:59:32)

/is also seriously flipping sick of using a search engine, where the top results are some sh1te sites with flip all information of use that some seo wa*k*r/wizard has done his stuff with and is taking up the place of someones site who does have the information on that is desired.[image]http://ganjataz.com/Forum/images/smiles/mad.gif[/image]



womble -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 15:04:53)

My point exactly Taz. If your content ain't worth sh1t, what's the point in being there in the first place? It's hardly gonna attract many visitors - at least the sort that aren't gonna hit the 'back' button within 10 seconds of hitting your site and realising it's total cr@p.



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 15:10:30)

quote:

Posting articles on your site certainly can't hurt you


Absolutely.

quote:

but without quality content visitors are quickly going to lose interest in your site


That's not bad depending on how you make money from your site.

quote:

Without decent content whether you've got backlinks or not and your site's going nowhere.


Not necessarily true.

If you're selling a popular commodity average content doesn't hinder sales. Most people will already have some idea about the product and they will look for two things - price and trustworthiness. You can achieve trust with the right additions to your site without having to add 100 pages of content. But, we are off base. This is sales - not SEO.

SEO is getting quality traffic. Certianly good content is helpful for a site, but quality content is going to become the Meta Tags of 5 years ago. Just what do I mean? When the masses discovered that search engines used meta tags to help determine the ranking of a site - everyone started stuffing them. Hundreds of keywords, paragraphs... you name it. People were working the meta tags for all they were worth. And why not? It was easy. Anyone can do it.

The search engines started to discount the influence of meta tags. Some may have even given zero weight to them any longer. In one giant, but effortless step the search engines discounted the vast majority of amateur SEO.

Today, on almost any web master forum I visit, the majority of people are pushing the litany of quality-unique-content. And why not? It is easy. Anyone can do it.

Writers are cheap, very cheap compared to buying sites, links, servers and building custom SEO software. So, once everyone is pumping up their sites with tons of good content, how do you seperate the wheat from the chaff? You look off the site.

I think the kind of content that is worth GOLD and will continue in the future is the content that gets back links from .gov's and .edu's. Once Universities start linking to your pages your sitting on a money machine.



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 15:15:32)

quote:

My point exactly Taz. If your content ain't worth sh1t, what's the point in being there in the first place? It's hardly gonna attract many visitors - at least the sort that aren't gonna hit the 'back' button within 10 seconds of hitting your site and realising it's total cr@p.


You guys don't get it. The traffic is worth big bucks and screw the web sites beneath. If Google thinks some junky site (in YOUR eyes) is more valuable than your site - I suggest you work harder. Complaining about it does nothing.

Maybe crank out another 100 pages of content and see if that helps...[:D]



Taz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 15:30:12)

I'm on about those crap sites trying to rake in cash that don't have the information they are supposed to have or are ranking for taking up the place of sites that do have the information.

That is morons screwing the system and they are to blame as are google for rating them above informative information containing site just because they do not try and play the system for a few fuc.... £$.

So Greed is good huh, can't wait till these people get the long awaited shaft when a riot happens.



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 15:36:18)

LOL!

If you don't like the results just use a different search engine. Google is kind of broke right now.

quote:

trying to rake in cash that don't have the information they are supposed to have


Blame that on Adsense. If you provide too much information on a MFA (made for Adsense) the visitors are more likely to learn all they need and leave. If you provide just enough to attract the visitor, but not much more - they are more likely to click an interesting looking Ad.

It's not greed. It's business 101. They are still leading the visitor to the right information - it's just one extra click.



caz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 15:43:50)

Where has quality content gone in all this? Try and do a sensible search on Google and it's like wading though a soup of link farms, shopping sites and other irrelevant rubbish. Maybe 3 useful hits out of 20,000 returned. Other search engines are not much better now either.

The search engines are so messed up to the point where high ranked sites need have No keywords in the metatags at all, as Mojo said. So much for the simplicity and transparency of the Dublin Core for information retrieval.

Information searching was so much more productive with card catalogues/on line retrieval services and humans. Come back Datastar/Dialog and all is forgiven. [;)]



Taz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 16:11:59)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo
If you don't like the results just use a different search engine.


Like they are that much different, no.

All run by greedy morons chasing the easy money. All screwing the pooch and making the whole system worthless.


They built a deck of cards and I will laugh my round sphericals off when it topples as it obviously seems to be.



womble -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 16:33:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo

quote:

My point exactly Taz. If your content ain't worth sh1t, what's the point in being there in the first place? It's hardly gonna attract many visitors - at least the sort that aren't gonna hit the 'back' button within 10 seconds of hitting your site and realising it's total cr@p.


You guys don't get it. The traffic is worth big bucks and screw the web sites beneath. If Google thinks some junky site (in YOUR eyes) is more valuable than your site - I suggest you work harder. Complaining about it does nothing.

Maybe crank out another 100 pages of content and see if that helps...[:D]


Most of the clients I work with who've done Business 101 long ago, they're smart enough to realise that for long term success - the success that comes from return trade, visitors that come back for more, they need content - good quality content.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taz
I'm on about those crap sites trying to rake in cash that don't have the information they are supposed to have or are ranking for taking up the place of sites that do have the information.

In my 'other' job, much of the research I do, I do on the internet. Wading through pages and pages of crap the SEs spew out to find what I need costs me and my employers hours every week and those hours cost money. That's the other side of the business coin. That isn't talking as a web designer, that's as an 'average user'.

Most of the people I know who have nothing to do with web design, who use the internet for leisure and shopping and such like are f*****d off with trying in vain to search on the internet for what they're looking for and getting sent down blind alleys. So now, they won't click on ads because they don't trust them not to be linked to some porn site or something that's nothing at all to do with what they're looking for, and if they're shopping they go to the sites of the well known companies who have a bricks and mortar prescence as well or the big online retailers whose addresses they know without having to search.

It's the users that are the customers and the users are sick of the SEs and their get rich quick schemes (and they're not stupid - they know clicking an ad's gonna earn some chancer a quick buck), and customers have a tendancy to vote with their feet. Didn't they teach you the customer's always right in Business 101?

Like Taz says, there's gonna come a day when the 'peasants' are gonna revolt. And it'll be the ones with the quality over the fast buck merchants who'll be sitting pretty then.



loversinc -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 16:42:51)

mmm... well I am submitting to directories and working hard on the content, any comments on my content so far? free-online-games-player.co.uk

thanks



dpf -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 16:47:43)

quote:

Information searching was so much more productive with card catalogues/
not so - it just seems that way but you arent taking volume into account. what library did you ever visit whose card catalogue had 2 million cards for a single topic? thats the sort of data search engines are trying to sort. sheesh, even if none of it was "gamed for SEO", think about it - what objective method could be employed to seperate the wheat from chaff? cant happen since the process of listing from best to worst has to be subjective. it is still quicker to gaze thru 1000 choice on a SE search than thru 1000 cards - no?

speaking of meta tags, I have always thought SE's made a mistake in just abandoning them. Suppose google came out with an announcement tomorrow: " we will start to give weight to descriptive meta keywords - however, we will only look at the first x (insert number - 3, 4 something small) keywords and if you exceed x (or y) we will give no weight. imagine what would happen - no stuffing and people would have to make serious choices - they would become useful again.



womble -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 16:52:25)

To be honest (and this is just my personal opinion) I don't think you've got a lot of content there. There's nothing there that would prompt me to investigate further if you were one site that came up in a sea of others. There's nothing there that's visually appealing to make me think "this looks interesting" and want to investigate more. Having said that, it's clear from the start what the sites about, and there's no superfluous rubbish and distracting ads which is a big plus.



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 16:58:46)

quote:

the success that comes from return trade, visitors that come back for more, they need content - good quality content.


Good, quality content that anyone can produce - cheaply. I never said it was bad or that it wouldn't help - only that back links etc. are more important.

quote:

Wading through pages and pages of crap the SEs spew out to find what I need costs me and my employers hours every week and those hours cost money.


Don't take this the wrong way, but if your company is relying on FREE TOOLS in order for you to do your job then Googles (the free tool) problems are the least of your worries.

quote:

That's the other side of the business coin.


Even though it's 2006 - you still get what you pay for.

quote:

So now, they won't click on ads because they don't trust them not to be linked to some porn site or something that's nothing at all to do with what they're looking for


That's strange - I don't know if I have ever clicked a PAID AD and been redirected to porn or something unrelated. That would be wasted money by the advertiser. If there are people wasting money like that I'm sure they will be out of business soon.

quote:

It's the users that are the customers and the users are sick of the SEs and their get rich quick schemes (and they're not stupid - they know clicking an ad's gonna earn some chancer a quick buck), and customers have a tendancy to vote with their feet. Didn't they teach you the customer's always right in Business 101?


I seriously don' t know what you're talking about. All my sites are busier than ever. My clients businesses are busting at the seams. Business is good. There are more customers than you can shake a stick at. Methinks the customers are voting with their feet away from your kind of sites to mine. [:)]

quote:

Like Taz says, there's gonna come a day when the 'peasants' are gonna revolt. And it'll be the ones with the quality over the fast buck merchants who'll be sitting pretty then.


Fine. Keep thinking those positive thoughts and I'm sure your sites will rock the search engines. Me? I'm actually doing something about my situation.



Taz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 17:01:29)

/is a moderate gamer so had a mooch

http://www.free-online-games-player.co.uk/mameroms.html

I'm suprised no obvious links to romnation.net or rom-world.com, but when following what seems like a logical link trail to find/download roms from I end up being sent to mame.dk which won't load.

/exits site and won't ever remember it existed



Taz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 17:08:49)

Mojo, we are not exactly talking about our sites and our rankings, we are more on about general users trying to use a search engine to find some information on a subject they are interested in being shafted with these damn link farms/made for adsense tripe laying seige to the top of search results.

Myself, sod backlinks, I got something better, a unique domain name that sticks in your memory. I couldn't give a toss about Page Rank or my SEO placings cos well, If someone is looking for me it's not hard to find me & in the years I have been playing this game those that wanted to find me did so with the greatest of ease and in their millions. When I enquire about anything to do with these things it's out of general interest or because someone wants to know & I know where I can get a reliable answer, or something has sparked my curiosity.

I pity those who have to keep up with this idiots circus of chasing after Google and their Algo games and all the other BS that goes with this. This is why I see it as it is, a house of cards waiting for the wind to come knock it down.



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 17:15:41)

quote:

This is why I see it as it is, a house of cards waiting for the wind to come knock it down.


Only for duffers or the ignorant.



Taz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 17:19:34)

Us ignorants and duffers will watch it all change cos it's getting screwed up as each day goes by thanks (:



womble -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 17:21:19)

For those who can't see what's right infront of them.



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 17:29:59)

You guys, the Internet isn't broken.... only a few search engines. Search Engines are not the Internet.

The sad truth is the people who are getting hit the hardest are those web masters who play by the rules one business asks them to obey. The people pushing the envelope are not really bothered by algo changes and all that. So, for all your huffing and puffing the people risking the most (according to Googles rule book) are harmed the least.

I feel for small businesses to mid sized businesses. It's getting so that they are falling further and further behind. Soon, with only 10 spots on the first page - there won't be room for them.



Taz -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 17:32:46)

Sorry but I don't see what we are saying as huffing and puffing, it's a fair call over a shi77y situation, and more so if Mr Playing it fair and square is getting the shaft as well as people trying to use a service to do what the service says it is supposed to do.



loversinc -> RE: articles and seo (5/10/2006 18:15:45)

thx, yea the link does'nt work for me either... I've got a lot of stuff to put onto the emulator page in the next few days.

cheers



Reflect -> RE: articles and seo (5/11/2006 1:58:46)

Hi all,

Let's try to bring this thread back to the original posters concern. If need be we can split off the other observations of SERPs as they are VERY valid IMHO.

I would like to clarify that I think content will help natural listings in the long run but backlinks WILL get you there a lot quicker. Also without a good set of backlinks, at this time, I do not see being able to reach page one for Google.

I am also amazed nobody has mentioned PPC. I don't think it is in your budget, I mean no offense, but if it is that will also get an audience to your site within minutes of starting a campaign. I have never had the need to research the genre you are in so I do not know if it would be cost effective. To fund campaigns I often look at affiliate programs. I insert text based links inside of my content and then mask the URL being displayed. This way you get targeted traffic and hopefully you get enough click throughs hat it pays for the PPC campaigns.

Anyway I have been at work now for 18 hours doing after hours server migrations. It just finished so.....

I'm out of here for a few hours of sleep.

Take care,

Brian



Mojo -> RE: articles and seo (5/11/2006 10:41:21)

If not huffing and puffing - then there are a lot of shrill and whiney comments above.

This thread could have been about a lot more than a few outspoken, emotional statements - that are delivered by womble and Taz who admittedly, don't know jack about SEO.

womble:
quote:

and I freely admit I know little about the serious SEO stuff


Taz:
quote:

When I enquire about anything to do with these things it's out of general interest or because someone wants to know & I know where I can get a reliable answer, or something has sparked my curiosity.

I pity those who have to keep up with this idiots circus of chasing after Google and their Algo games and all the other BS that goes with this. This is why I see it as it is, a house of cards waiting for the wind to come knock it down.



Donkey -> RE: articles and seo (5/11/2006 13:38:48)

I'm not given to emotional statements but I think that a lot of what Taz and Womble have been saying is correct. I think SEO is now a necessary evil for most commercial sites but the internet would be a much easier place to find your way round if it hadn't ever been invented.

Mojo I understand your position completely but I think as an SEO professional you are so caught up in the process and the drive to make money out of the process that you are not seeing the valid points that others are making.

My view is simple if I use a search engine and I want to find out about the duckbill platypus then when I type in "Duckbill Platypus" I expect to find a list of sites about the creatures and perhaps a pet shop selling them or a Rock Group called "Duckbill Platypus". I have no objection to the search engine having a lot of ads on the page as long as (like is mandatory with print ads) they are clearly labelled as advertisements. I believe the real links should be totally separate from the paid for ones.

What I don't want to find is that most of the links take me to sites that have nothing whatever to do with the duckbill platypus and are just lists of links to other sites which are also lists of links. As a user I have been conned.

When search engines started they were intended to help people find sites about topics they were interested in. The SEO "industry" has perverted this useful tool to make money from people aimlessly clicking through to sites that have no interest to them then clicking out again. So not only are the users being conned but the advertisers who pay per click are also being cheated. I know that a lot of people are making a lot of money out of SEO but their moral position is indefensible.

A site that has a high ranking with virtually no useful content and lots of back links is a confidence trick no more no less. You may be able to make a lot of money with it but that is no defense, you can also make a lot of money from fraud and armed robbery.



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