Hasta la Vista (Full Version)

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nrhatigan -> Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 4:09:43)

Firstly I like MS products generally and have no axe to grind with Microsoft ........ but,

I saw some stuff the other day that Windows Vista will only run acceptably on machines with 1G of RAM and gobbles up 15Gb of Hard drive. What a monster. The sad thing is all the stuff I want in an OS shouldn't be this demanding and all the stuff I dont want (3D icons etc) will take up all the room and resources.

The really really sad thing is that in a couple of years it will be the standard and all the software will only run on it. I used to be quite happy with Win 98 on my old laptop but wanted to run a copy of FP2003 so needed to upgrade to XP. It now runs like an old retired cart horse needing frequent stops to complete a simple task.

Sorry - I know I sound like a grumpy old @~:t but just wanted to get it off my chest.[&o]




Taz -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 6:33:44)

With modern Graphics cards and better performing motherboards and programs requiring more to power them 1GB of RAM isn't that much, especially as it can be purchased pretty cheaply.
I personally wouldn't even bother setting up a machine with less than 2GB of RAM These days just to cope with normal PC activities like surfing the web etc.

As for HardDrive space, I have games that take up to 3GB's + of space each, so an OS taking up a few times that isn't really that much of a reach considering what it is, what it does and what it's for.

Not happy with the upgrades required, stick with XP or whatever till it's proven you do need the higher specs for Vista, or wait till the guides start coming out on how to turn down all the Vista settings so you can run it under your Rigs current config. (:

Myself, I won't be touching it for a while after it's released, I don't get paid test pilot cash to break in someones "Rushed and problematic" software so I won't be doing the job. I reckon it will be about a year till Vista becomes a viable and "stable" OS once all the initial issues have been ironed out and several rounds of patches and updates have been created to fix the leaky bits left unplugged or undiscovered.




dpf -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 10:47:24)

I vividly recall being shocked and P.O'd n the early 90s when i read an article wherein Gates said that by the late 90's, his software would require 100MB (yes, MB notGB) of disk space. how dare he! you are both right _ taz hits it on the head - few will ugrade to it but it will be on new machines and become defacto in a few years. Is this progress, I wonder? id like it for functionality but not fluff like 3Dicons. we shall see.




Taz -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 13:41:58)

I don't let Bill Gates style Venger anymore, even when I did use the Windows XP theme, I changed the colours and fonts to suit me. Now I just find a Skin I like on the web and use Skinning software to radically change how XP looks on my system.

I don't even rely on Bill Gates Boot screen, I made my own custom one of that so I don't have to see that stupid windows logo and time bar.

Here is how my Desktop Style looks like.
Screenshot

& This is what my Bootscreen looks like when I start my Computer (To my own Intro Music by the way.)
[image]http://darkerside.co.uk/image-gallery/cpg133/albums/userpics/faithless-oz-bootscreen.jpg[/image]




caz -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 14:13:37)

Vista will be available in different flavours - depending on the amount of fluff you want. It appears that my machine will be capable of running it but I may want to upgrade the graphics setup. [;)]

There's a tool that you can run to check your machine at:-
Vista Viability

Needless to say, I like Win2000pro and have XP on the laptop and a second drive so if IE7 is OK on some of these that's all I want ...for now.

Edit: Vista may be delayed even further by a scrap with Symantec about security in MS Vista,

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/19/symantec_vs_microsoft/

[:D][:D]




jaybee -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 15:48:35)

If XP is now running like a dog on your machine, maybe it's time for a good clean up. Back up all your data and drivers. Wipe the hard drive and do a reinstall.

Be prepared to do a huge download of all the patches.




rdouglass -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 16:48:36)

quote:

The really really sad thing is that in a couple of years it will be the standard and all the software will only run on it.


That's the way it is. We don't buy a computer to last forever (or at least we shouldn't.) We don't buy vehicles that way (a few collector items yes, but in general no.)

We (at least from a business perspective) cannot treat computer hardware and software as durable goods to lat indefinitely (10+ years). They need to be treated almost as a "consumable" item with a definite lifetime.

If you want to do computing as a hobby, then yes, a PC may last you 8 or 10 years. But if you do this professionally, you're really pushing it with 3 year old hardware. If you want to do woodworking as a hobby, well you can probably get by with the same tools you had 10 years ago but if you're doing this for a living, you'll be buying new euipment much sooner if you want to remain competative.

Computers are *not* durable goods items. They are 'toasters' in the sense that they're not even worth fixing many times after about 2 years.

I know it seems like a never ending cycle (a conspiracy almost), but the computer you bought 10 years ago will probably do the same job it was intended to do with no problems. The real problem is we want them to do more than they were intended to do.

Well, maybe not directly us but our customers. And unless you're doing this as a hobby, you need customers. If we're not providing what our customers want, then we don't really have a very good business model (or we need to find new customers.)

My customers want sites built with the latest technology and techniques (don't mistake these words for "latest hardware and OS"). If my competitor can do it in half the time as I can because he has newer (read "faster") hardware, then he has an advantage over me. I don't see this as being all that much different than most other businesses that produce a product. That part is Economics 101.

Having said that, you don't always have to jump every step. Why not skip a step or two? For instance, going from Windows 2000 to XP may not be necessary and you may be able to just wait for Vista. Or something to that effect.

Unless of course, your app requires it. Same deal though - it is a cost of business and has to be treated as such. Try building 5% of the cost of a new PC or app into every project as if it was a cost of doing business. That's how 'real 'businesses do it. Hey, we all have a 'cost of doing business'. The trick is knowing what that really is. Buying new computer hardware and software is *definitely* one of those costs in this business. As much as rent, phone charges, and electricity.

</$.02>

EDIT: And my first computer had 16K of memory. Ya know, it will still do what it was intended to do and still makes an adequate word processor.




womble -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 18:24:44)

I read a couple of weeks ago on an RSS feed (can't remember which one now) that there are going to be around 8 different flavours of Vista to choose from. I think the problem is that while we "in the trade" might upgrade our machines on a regular basis, the average man on the street doesn't on the whole unless "the damned thing stops working" and he has to get another, or it slows up to the point he thinks he'd better get a newer one. Using the toaster analogy it's the equivalent to running it until it don't work no more even if you do change the fuse and it don't brown your toast like it used to. It's your average punter that's gonna be hit when they start finding out the latest software won't run on their machines that are a few OS back, and with their specs they've no chance of running Vista.

At the moment I'm running XP Pro on my desktop and XP Home on my laptop - with IE6 on my desktop and IE7 on my laptop. Like Taz I'll be waiting a while til they've squished a good number of the bugs before I let Vista anywhere near either of my machines, though Diva's gonna be superceded probably at the end of the year - she starts to feel very inadequate when certain people round here start talking about their specs [:D] (though she's very happy at the moment cos she's got a lovely Ganjataz boot screen [:)])




Taz -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 21:03:56)

diz wun =]




Taz -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/20/2006 21:06:53)

As for the average Joe so to speak, they should avoid these "Vista Ready PC's" that are no doubt Starting to get Mentioned/Sold.
If I was gonna go "Off the Store Shelf" Stock Rig I wouldn't buy before the bloody software had even been released to avoid the headache of having to fart about with it when the OS arrives and changes have been made in the Line up, the Specs required to run the version you want/need from the range, nor would I be amused at any extra costs involved.

However, you know people will do the panic buying thing now and suffer later for the stupidity.




womble -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/21/2006 5:01:56)

and of course the manufacturers and retailers are no doubt playing along with the game - sell 'em 'vista ready' PCs now, then make a shed load more cash when they find out they ain't got the specs to run Vista.

(Diva's got the ebil smiley one now [:)])




Taz -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/21/2006 7:12:05)

[image]http://ganjataz.com/Forum/images/smiles/grineyes.gif[/image]




rdouglass -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/22/2006 10:00:39)

Well, I for one would disagree, I don't believe any PC box maker is making a 'shed load' of cash. They need folks to turn over their PC's just to stay even.

(I just know there are a few *true skeptics* here on this board. [;)])

And again, I for one am glad I'm not trying to develop on a Commodore 64 and that there is *some* innovation out there. As much as people dislike companies that make a profit, they do some good things for the computing communities.

The Open Source community is good for making innovative things free and eventually more secure but IMO, innovation doesn't come from companies that don't charge anything for their products.

Oh sure, there are exceptions to every rule but in general, the *big steps* are made by companies that are for-profit. Isn't that the essentials of capitalism?




Reflect -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/22/2006 10:59:02)

Linux 10 (SUSE) distro require 1GB of RAM to perfom the install.

Take care,

Brian




bobbydazzla -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/23/2006 5:17:43)

quote:

If XP is now running like a dog on your machine, maybe it's time for a good clean up. Back up all your data and drivers. Wipe the hard drive and do a reinstall.

Be prepared to do a huge download of all the patches.


I ordered SP2 on CD.[8D]
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/sp2/cdorder/en_us/default.mspx
It only cost me $4AU all up. Saved alot of download time (dial up sucks[:@])




Taz -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/23/2006 6:03:10)

People still have and use dial up? [image]http://ganjataz.com/Forum/images/smiles/lol.gif[/image]


;)




bobbydazzla -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/23/2006 6:09:16)

[:D]ooooh I have 2 stars[8D]




bobbydazzla -> RE: Hasta la Vista (5/23/2006 6:10:22)

3[:D][:D][:D]




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