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Microsoft MVP

 

tips for newbies :)

 
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LB

 

Posts: 5551
From: Montana USA
Status: offline

 
tips for newbies :) - 4/11/2001 13:40:00   
What are some of the tips you wish you would have had when first using Frontpage?

1) Use tables to hold your content.

2) Do not drag the edges of the table or cells. It often will mess up the math and not show correctly in Netscape (to fix, change the cell properties so they add up correctly for the width of the table)

3) Empty cells need to either be merged together, or put a small transparent gif in them to keep them open in Netscape.
(some people use spaces; this isn't completely dependable but may work)

4) Don't use Frontpage hover buttons! They are not stable in Netscape.

MysticNight

 

Posts: 273
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/13/2001 23:14:00   
Stick to coding by hand! :P j/k

5) Page transitions my look nice, but cause problems and increase page loading time.

6) Don't let me make you a background cause apparently I make some really bad ones.

7) Set FP to be compatible with 3.0 versions of both browsers. (just to be safe)

8) Invest all the money you can in to headache medicines.

9) Learn HTML if you don't already know it.

10) Don't get discouraged

I'm sure I'll be back with me.


(in reply to LB)
capitao

 

Posts: 53
From: Guidlford Surrey United Kingdom
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/13/2001 23:43:00   
11 - it needs mentioming again - TABLES are the key to controlling how things look ... for me pixel widths are better than %ages

12 - get NN and IE installed on your computer (find a friend with a Mac - it's a different world)

13 - set your browser background default colour to bright pink (picked that tip up in here) ... and then go and correct your mistakes

14 - remember you will NEVER know enough, and you will ALWAYS be learning

15 - don't be scared of frames, they can be very useful ... and only a little bit confusing

16 - look at your own HTML code and other peoples as a way of learning what goes on

17 - a LOT of people are still surfing at 800x600 pixels (more than any other res!) ... use the [file] menu, and then select preview in browser, set it to 800x600. horizontal scroll bars are BAD form

18 - TABLES ... you have control!

19 - a FP theme can be spotted a mile away ... be a little more adventureous

20 - surf a lot for inspiration

21 - navigation - it has to be intuative, the back button in a browser shouldn't be needed?!?!?!

22 - META tags ... are very important if you need to get hits from search engines

23 - conventional targetted magazine/newspaper advertising is a great way of gettting hits if your business/website is regoinal/local

24 - this forum is a great place to learn and share

25 - authoring accompanied by music - is a great idea

26 - authoring accompanied by beer - is not a great idea

27 - did I mention TABLES

------------------
nothing to do with the LA Lakers
laker-media ... web design & photo solutions
laker-images ... travel, abstract & social imagery

[This message has been edited by capitao (edited 04-13-2001).]


(in reply to LB)
Gil

 

Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/13/2001 13:23:00   
  • 28. Don't use "splash" pages, have at least 'some' content on your "Home" page.
  • 29. Only use frames if forced and not on the "Home" page.
  • 30. If you just have to add background music, give the visitor a way to turn it off.
  • 31. Use "popups" sparingly.

TheHostFactory.NET

[This message has been edited by Gil (edited 04-13-2001).]


(in reply to LB)
LB

 

Posts: 5551
From: Montana USA
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/13/2001 13:47:00   
quote:
Originally posted by capitao:
13 - set your browser background default colour to bright pink (picked that tip up in here) ... and then go and correct your mistakes

To explain a bit more on this one: If your browser's default background is set to something other than white or gray, it will be easy to see when you haven't set a color for your page background.

If you specify the background color on your page, you also need to set the text and hyperlink colors. You can leave all of these set to "automatic" if you want the viewers default colors to be used.

Linda

ps - #6) Busy backgrounds make it hard to take in the content of the site... nothing against your backgrounds in particular, MN!

------------------
Ruby Marketing


(in reply to LB)
MysticNight

 

Posts: 273
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/13/2001 13:59:00   
13) VERY IMPORTANT IMO! Right up there with....uhh...oh yeah tables. My background is a pale, not web friendly and browsers would probably shoot themselve green. Not very commonly used color. Anyhow, sites like Yahoo! and a few others I can't remember have pages with backgrounds set to automatic. In other words. Common mistake. Help yourself out.

(in reply to LB)
Gil

 

Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/13/2001 14:03:00   
quote:
Originally posted by MysticNight:
13) VERY IMPORTANT IMO! Right up there with....uhh...oh yeah tables. My background is a pale, not web friendly and browsers would probably shoot themselve green. Not very commonly used color. Anyhow, sites like Yahoo! and a few others I can't remember have pages with backgrounds set to automatic. In other words. Common mistake. Help yourself out.[/B]


Ahh, Yahoo's is NOT a mistsake, they haven't set any of the Body attributes which is fine. Just make sure if you set any (bgcolor) you set ALL of them....

------------------
Gil Harvey
The Host Factory
Resellers are our speciality
"Is there another word for synonym?"


(in reply to LB)
MysticNight

 

Posts: 273
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/14/2001 20:49:00   
quote:
Originally posted by Gil:

Ahh, Yahoo's is NOT a mistsake, they haven't set any of the Body attributes which is fine. Just make sure if you set any (bgcolor) you set ALL of them....


[/B]


Ok, then I'm confused. On Yahoo there most of the pages have a white background, but others have a green background (my default color). Yahoo homepage is my default color, but like the Yahoo shopping has a white background. The login screen for the mail is defaulted, but the account itself and the logout confimation screen are white. I mean what if someone had black as their default background? Yahoo would be pretty much useless except for links and the few pages that have a specified background color.


(in reply to LB)
Gil

 

Posts: 7533
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/14/2001 14:28:00   
quote:
Originally posted by MysticNight:
Ok, then I'm confused. On Yahoo there most of the pages have a white background, but others have a green background (my default color). Yahoo homepage is my default color, but like the Yahoo shopping has a white background. The login screen for the mail is defaulted, but the account itself and the logout confimation screen are white. I mean what if someone had black as their default background? Yahoo would be pretty much useless except for links and the few pages that have a specified background color.

Well, common sense would say IF someone set the background color to black, they would set text to a light color (white?) and so everything would be fine. The concept of the WWW is; each user has the ability to set a default color scheme or to accept the author's scheme. When an author or an user sets only a portion of the scheme they "break" the system. If you have your bgcolor set to green, what do you have for text, link, alink, vlink ?

I haven't looked at all the pages at Yahoo, but from what you describe they use style sheets for "some" pages and not others - which is OK.

I normally do not set any body attributes unlees I am using a style sheet (more & more) - who am I to tell you a background should be white if you've chosen green?
BUT when I do set an attribute I set ALL of them...

------------------
Gil Harvey
The Host Factory
Resellers are our speciality
"Is there another word for synonym?"


(in reply to LB)
Guest


 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/15/2001 23:27:00   
32) Use animation only when it helps with the message.

33) Break up text to make it easier to read and digest quickly. How long do you stick around a page with miles and miles of text unless you're reading a story?

34) Use tables for layout (but don't nest them too deep)


(in reply to LB)
capitao

 

Posts: 53
From: Guidlford Surrey United Kingdom
Status: offline

 
RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/16/2001 20:30:00   
[list=35]
  • learn from others
  • be careful when chosing your font styles, if they don't have your font - they'll be seeing their default = times?
  • create a testweb - and use it to try out new things - safer that breaking the ewb you're working on
  • KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid ... simple design, few colours - will look elegant and be easier to manage
  • The M word - most websites are alive, they need feeding and watering, alone with the occasional spring clean ... think about this during the initial design stages
  • thin coloumns of text - like a newspaper - is easier to read than using 100% of the screen width ... tables again
  • when you discover the wonders of merging table cells - please take a look at what you did in NN ... not quite so pretty (shame) learn from your own mistakes
    [/list]

    that's #35-42 ... tests things out before you try and be clever ... and oh boy! learn from your own mistakes

    ------------------
    absolutely nothing to do with the LA Lakers
    laker-media | laker-images | laker-abstract | me

    [This message has been edited by capitao (edited 04-16-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by capitao (edited 04-16-2001).]


    (in reply to LB)
  • Richard Sterling

     

    Posts: 314
    From: Cincinatti Ohio West Point, Nebraska USS
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/16/2001 21:35:00   
    Lots of good tips there, but this one saved a lot of load time and confusion for me when I found it here.

    (A) When copying in text from anything other than notepad...

    right click>
    paste special>
    normal paragraphs with line breaks>

    (B) Single pixel gifs are our friends

    (C) LB is FP2000 guardian angel!
    (I gotta look into how to do those smiley faces)

    Rich


    (in reply to LB)
    davebukouricz

     

    Posts: 300
    From: Ma None
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 4/17/2001 21:45:00   
    Test, test, and test. Nothing will damage or destroy the credibility of your site faster than script that doesn't work, pages that aren't there, and graphics that take minutes instead of seconds to load.

    (in reply to LB)
    dth

     

    Posts: 8
    From: Huntsville, Alabama USA
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 5/2/2001 13:43:00   
    47?
    Keep a page of handy tips as tips.htm page in your website, so they're there when you need them. For example,
    * your Hex codes of your links/backgrounds
    * how to remove hyperlink underlines <style>a { text-decoration: none } - place in head
    * tricks and coding that you don't use often but want handy (if too many, start a binder)
    * even a hyperlink to the Outfront forums in case you need help!
    * your wife's birthday...

    48) Backup, backup, backup - each publish in case you mess things up badly.

    49) Recalulate and Verify hyperlinks often and fix any broken links

    50) Use footer includes so you only have to change one file. Footers are good for main/secondary web section links and publish dates.

    ------------------
    Denise Hendrix
    www.ternion.com
    FLAMES Simulation Framework


    (in reply to LB)
    gorilla

     

    Posts: 2974
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 6/11/2001 20:22:00   
    51? Once I get past fingers and toes I get confused

    If you have to use a java applet have the elementary cop-on to test it thoroughly.

    Otherwise send me the url to your site so that I'll know *not* to go there.

    ------------------
    Hope this helps :-)
    Gorilla
    aka Mark Saunders
    http://www.computerdriving.com

    marksaunders@techie.com


    (in reply to LB)
    bbigham

     

    Posts: 118
    From: Oregon
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 6/30/2001 20:16:00   
    52. Pay at least as much attention to content as you do to appearance. Nothing ruins a site quickly than seeing:

    "We offer the most compleet serviece of any internet design company."

    53. Bookmark this site and visit it often.

    ------------------
    BARD Enteprises
    Writing & Editing
    Print & Electronic Media


    (in reply to LB)
    Guest


     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 9/7/2001 20:24:00   
    Ahhhh... here 'tis!

    (in reply to LB)
    Thomas Brunt

     

    Posts: 6109
    Joined: 6/6/1998
    From: St. Matthews SC USA
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 9/7/2001 20:23:00   
    54) Never give up.

    (in reply to LB)
    Spooky

     

    Posts: 26599
    Joined: 11/11/1998
    From: Middle Earth
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 9/8/2001 20:53:00   
    55) Learn to count good

    (in reply to LB)
    Reflect

     

    Posts: 4769
    From: USA
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 9/28/2001 13:41:00   
    56) If content needs spidered by SEs only nest tables two deep, at three deep spiders won't see the content.

    57) Use include pages instead of shared borders

    58) Discover good keywords for your sites theme ahead of time. Write content geared towards those keywords.

    59) Never think you know everything, you'll stop learning at that very second.

    60) Use external files for Javascript and CSS as making one change is better than making one hundred.

    Brian

    ------------------
    Work hard, play fair, stay sane


    (in reply to LB)
    TimC

     

    Posts: 199
    From: Greenville SC (& or) Monterrey Mexico
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 10/3/2001 20:22:00   
    61) Use folders "A LOT OF THEM" to organize your work, and use page "filenames" that are self explanatory - come back and try to fix a site 2 years later and you will see why

    62) Learning comes from experience and most of those were bad (Oh ok, Will Rogers wrote that one just for us Front-Page Users )

    63) [Not always] but often you can quickly map out a sites layout by creating all the pages using the navigator view. This works like a flow chart and even if you do not use the FP Navigation Bars, it forces you to design a more logical thought out site. If you start with a Home Page, right click on it, select "add new page" then before doing anything else, right click on the new page you just created and select "rename" it will create file names and titles that are the same as what you just labeled the Navigation box to say. I have created 300-500 page websites this way in a matter of hours where you have pages that are almost identical with minor variations between pages. [The only drawback to this method is its inability to use templates but this can be remedied I believe with "Vince's program" (which I keep meaning to buy) or by using Style Sheets.


    (in reply to LB)
    suzkaw

     

    Posts: 161
    From: North Carolina, USA
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 10/11/2001 22:10:00   
    64. PRACTICE
    65. PRACTICE
    66. PRACTICE

    Just like any competitive sport Practice makes perfect.

    ------------------
    SUZKAW

    [This message has been edited by suzkaw (edited 10-11-2001).]


    (in reply to LB)
    suzkaw

     

    Posts: 161
    From: North Carolina, USA
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 10/11/2001 22:23:00   
    Just thought of another

    67. When starting a new site draw the layout on a peice of paper and then fold the paper in half. This way the top represents what shows on screen first then the rest comes below. just an idea

    68. Get familier with the search button on the top of outfront.net


    It is wonderful!


    (in reply to LB)
    Guest


     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 10/16/2001 16:19:00   
    When editing in normal view, as you know, hitting enter begins a new paragraph, but if you do a shift + enter, you can insert a line break. This keyborard shortcut is invaluable when working with lists.

    To put this tip to best use, edit with the "show all" button activated.


    (in reply to LB)
    jflower

     

    Posts: 19
    From: Longmont, CO USA
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 10/27/2001 13:47:00   
    69. Don't use absolute positioning to place graphics in a table cell. Everyone else sees them out of place. Use "none", and it locks on relative to the cell.

    70. Don't use FP2002's text boxes to make hyperlinks for navigation. NN6 (and some other IE users) can't see them.

    Questions for capitao:
    What's the problem with FP themes? (#19)
    What's the problem with merging cells? (#41)

    I'm using a simple theme just to hold a banner, but I could eliminate it simply by putting the banner graphic in the top cell on each page. Should I do that?

    I've merged lots of cells in my site. I don't think I could find them all. If this is a problem, I will just have to go through the site making new tables to move the old content into.

    Thanks


    (in reply to LB)
    LB

     

    Posts: 5551
    From: Montana USA
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 10/27/2001 15:45:00   
    Using a theme is fine, but that comment was suggesting not use the ones that come with FP. They aren't very good quality and are very overused.

    There's nothing wrong with merging cells. The person who suggested this must have had some other problem with his table properties.

    Linda


    (in reply to LB)
    Captain Swing

     

    Posts: 12
    From: None
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 11/12/2001 20:36:00   
    quote:
    Originally posted by dth:
    47?

    * how to remove hyperlink underlines <style>a { text-decoration: none } - place in head

    I tried that - It wiped out all of my text - thank god it was my dev page. I guess it's because I use a white font as defualt in my e-mail right now.

    Does anyone know a way around this - and not changing my font colour :-D



    (in reply to LB)
    TimC

     

    Posts: 199
    From: Greenville SC (& or) Monterrey Mexico
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 12/9/2001 5:07:24   
    Lets take this back to the top of the page, It was about to dissapear into the great abyss called page 2 - now for the tips.

    Let See - I think we are up to tip 71
    71: If you use FP server extensions then you better get on a first name basis with all the guys in tech support at your friendly server farm. They get frustrated customers calling and screaming at them all day long. It's amazing how much more helpfull they are if your conversation doesn't start with griping about the 30 or 60 minutes you just spent on hold. These guys can help save your hide and can be a great resource when exploring things like which realtime tech support chat services, merchant accounts, shopping carts are most stable or best bang for the buck. They even helped me find IPIX for virtual tour mobilehome photos. They see what works since they host an average of 60 to 150 thousand domains at each of the farms we currently use.

    72: Who said this is for begginers - There is always something new to learn thus TimC's coralary to Murphy's Law -#1 The more I learn, the more I realize how IGNORANT I am. and the second coralary to the above - #2 Ignorant people don't know how dumb they really are. [hmmmm - Oops I think I just created an "infinite loop". - programmers will know what I meant]

    73: Go back and re-read some of these topics frequently, Until you implement a trick you learned here on your own site 2 or 3 times, YOU WILL FORGET IT


    TimC
    Good things come to those who wait...<BR>. . but only that which was left by those who hustled" Abraham Lincoln

    Edited by - TimC on 12/09/2001 05:14:14

    (in reply to LB)
    puiwaihin

     

    Posts: 1378
    From: Taiwan
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 12/13/2001 17:56:30   
    74. Never use spaces in file names. You can get some weird errors that are hard to track down.

    75. Keep it simple. Many times you can accomplish what you want with simple HTML. Sometimes it is better to sacrifice a little control for simplicity.

    76. Keep it simple. Glitter and glamor can outshine your message. Make sure you keep images and effects in perspective. Make sure the first thing a visitor sees is the message you want them to see most.

    77. In FP always PUBLISH your website instead of using ftp if you are using the FP server extensions. Using ftp on a FrontPage web can corrupt your extensions and cause all sorts of quirky problems.

    ----------
    Who put the self-destruct button THERE?!

    (in reply to LB)
    Brobob

     

    Posts: 2
    From: None
    Status: offline

     
    RE: tips for newbies :) - 12/19/2001 23:14:32   
    I like to open a task item in FP and place the site's color codes and font names there for future reference. A few weeks late when I'm working on an image for that site, I can quickly find the color info in a to do item.

    Brobob
    Milk and Honey Farm

    (in reply to LB)
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