Question about how files are saved. (Full Version)

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Gwen -> Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 12:41:59)

Hello everyone, it's me, again! [:)]

When I save a page from the website I'm editing, besides the actual page, a file is made that contains any images.

However, when I edit the page, then put it on the server, all the images are missing.

To correct the situation, I've discovered that in FrontPage, I need to delete the original images on the page, then reinsert them from images I've saved that are outside of the file for that page that was automatically saved and contains the original images.

It's working, but it doesn't seem very efficient to me, so I was wondering if what I'm doing is correct, or is there a more efficient way?

By the way, I installed the invisible stat counter that someone on here recommended to me on this board. It was really easy to do, and is perfect! Thanks!



rdouglass -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 13:05:33)

quote:

when I edit the page, then put it on the server,


I think the key is in there somewhere.

When you're editing, is it on a web somewhere or is it just a file on your PC?

Have you published the file as opposed to just copying it?



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 13:11:18)

When I wrote that I edit the page, all I've done is edit the text, nothing else. Sorry, I should have been more clear about that.

The page I'm editing is the same page that's on the web, but I've saved it on my hard drive, and editing it in FrontPage. I hope that's what you were asking. [:)]

I don't know what you mean by publishing it as opposed to copying it?



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 13:18:08)

I believe that when you say you save a page and it creates a file and I'm assuming you mean a FOLDER for the images.........then when you upload the images are not there...you then have to insert them manually and then everything is fine.......if that is the case, it's just a matter of the image location.....when they are not showing up check the file path for which they are being pulled in from........

I'm assuming..........so beware



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 13:50:54)

Yes, you're assuming correctly. I've discovered that I cannot have the images on my harddrive in any individual file. In order for them to appear on the edited page, once I upload it to the server, the images must be outside any of my named files. Gawd, I don't know if that makes sense to anyone.

So back to my initial question. Why does FrontPage bother saving a file of the images, when they don't work?



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 13:55:52)

GWEN,

just by chance are you saving your page from the browser window when your viewing it like in IE and doing a File As?



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:04:03)

quote:

Why does FrontPage bother saving a file of the images, when they don't work?
quote:



Frontpage can save images anywhere within your WEB but if you don't point Frontpage to the right location of these images they will not render on the page.

I believe your pages are pointing to your hard drive to find the images and not the web folder that your pages are in.

Do you have a URL of the page missing the images
we can look at?



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:07:52)

Hi Swoosh,

Yes, I'm saving the web page from IE, using "Save As." Is that not the correct way to save it?

The site that I've been updating, and my first site doing this, is http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gjdemko/



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:08:57)

quote:

Yes, I'm saving the web page from IE, using "Save As." Is that not the correct way to save it?


that is NOT the correct way to save it......and that's the whole problem of your images not showing after you edit



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:13:28)

Ohhh...okay. Would you please tell me the correct way?



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:13:48)

Why are you saving your page from IE when it's already on a server and your viewing it in the browser? please excuse me if I don't understand.

I'm taking that this is not a site that you built in Frontpage



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:20:16)

I was saving it that way because I didn't know there was another way, and yes, I didn't build the page. I'm just doing the editing.

Oh..I just had a thought. Rather than saving the page in IE, am I able to open it in the server, save it, make edits, then upload it? Will that correct the situation?



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:25:43)

You could open up your pages from within FP live on the server........make your edit changes and then SAVE......no need to upload since you are making changes directly on the server.....

Do you have a copy of the site on your Hard Drive somewhere? if so just open it up in FP make your edit changes, save and then upload to the server.

The first option is obviously easier because of no uploading, but if you keep doing it that way you then don't have a local UPDATED copy of it on your hard drive. So if something should happen to the site you don't have the updated version as a backup



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:36:29)

What you've just told me, about updating it right on the server makes perfect sense, and I don't know why I didn't think about doing that before! Brain overload, I guess.

So, if I do the edits right on the server, can't I just save a copy on my harddrive?

In other words, I'm using Ipswitch WS_FTP, which has two panes. The one on the left has the files on my harddrive, and the one on the right has the website files. If I can transfer files by dragging and dropping from my harddrive to the server, I can do the reverse, right?

If I'm understanding what you've told me, you've just made my life so much easier!



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 14:51:49)

You understand perfectly Gwen

BUT
your FTP'ing your files as you said with WS_FTP, but if you have any FrontPage specific components on your pages such as forms and other components they will not work and your server extensions will have to be re-applied.

You can Publish your site right through with FrontPage by using the Publish button on the toolbar.

It's no problem FTP'ing like you are as long as you don't have any pages with specific frontpage components that require the extensions to work.

and YES you can do the reverse and download back to your hard drive as you stated so you have a local copy after editing live on the server or do the opposite by editing on your hard drive and upload. Either way would be fine.



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/28/2006 16:41:59)

I had to go out for a bit, so I apoligize for the lateness of my reply. Thank you so very, very much for all your help, direction and advice. I'm thrilled!

I don't think the Dartmouth server is equipped to handle FrontPage extensions. I tried putting the FrontPage counter on the site, and rec'd the message that the server doesn't support it.

The site's content is relatively simple, so I'll just work around it if it happens again.

Thanks again!



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 9:49:26)

I attempted to do some editing to a page directly on the server, but when I open the page, it opens with IE and doesn't allow me to make any changes.

Right click options don't give me a choice of what to open the page with, so I'm stuck.

I think what I need to know is, is there a way to open up a page on the server directly into FrontPage?



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 10:20:08)

Open up FrontPage and connect to your server via frontpage......using File>>Open Site then putting in your domain in the folder window ......sounds like your opening up your pages via FTP rather than FrontPage. Unless I misunderstood



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 10:31:58)

Hi Swoosh. No, you understood perfectly. However, when I try to follow your instructions and click on File, there is no "Open Site" on the menu.

There is an "Open Web" option, which I clicked on, and which then goes to the "My Webs" file on the hard drive, in which is the file for the website.

I don't understand how to get to the website from there, if that's the right place.



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 10:46:11)

Hi Gwen,

After choosing File>>Open Web.....and you get the open web dialog box to appear there should be a window towards the bottom that says "site name or folder name" in this window you want to type in your domain *http://www.whatever.com" and then click open.......this should then prompt you for the username and password once it connects to your host...



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 10:50:12)

I tried that, Swoosh, and this is the message:

"Folder isn't accessible. Maybe in an unavailable location, protected w/password, or file name contains a / or \.

I tried both the main domain name, and the URL of the actual site.



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 10:56:58)

make sure your putting it in like so "http://www.whatever.com"...........if you get the same result I think your FrontPage Server Extensions are corrupted since you said you have been uploading FTP.........you will have to ask the host to re-apply them to your web.

The Server Extensions are required to open up the site live and uploading your FP pages and using FTP to upload will corrupt them.



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 11:11:06)

Ah, that's the problem. Yesterday, I confirmed with the Dartmouth webmaster that they don't support FrontPage extensions, so I guess I'm out of luck, as far as editing the pages directly on the server, right?




swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 11:12:30)

Well that's a bummer huh?..........you are correct



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (6/30/2006 11:21:53)

Sure is. My hope was to teach the man who owns the site to edit the pages himself, and it would have been much easier for him to do, and me to teach him (!), on the server.

So back to the beginning part of this thread, and my question:

Why does FrontPage bother saving a file of the images, when they don't work?

Also, is there a better way to save the file off the website then "Save As" in IE?

Thanks for all your help, Swoosh. You are appreciated!



abrogard -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (7/2/2006 16:41:44)

It's a bit hard to see what you're on about really, so I might have it all wrong...

But I think perhaps you aren't using frontpage correctly.

Frontpage will work on files if you tell it or it will work on a 'site'. You make a directory a 'site', a website.

Working on 'sites' is the way to go.

Frontpage will then write extra files to that site and create extra directories.

That site would typically be on your own hard drive.

You would then upload from there to the server that is hosting your site for you.

When you tell Frontpage to upload a site it can do things like check the site (the target site) to see what the dates are on the files and it will only upload changed files for you.

It will also put those extra files and directories on the target site.

This is pretty good.

Typically you set off to change a file on your site (in your working directory on your hard drive, where you can work offline if you wish and which is also a backup and where the world can't see if you screw up and where you put together the next version, etc....) and changing one file means changing another and on the way there you see something needs fixing or enhancing, or tweaking..... and a few hours later you realise you've no idea how many files you've 'touched'.

And if you don't upload each changed file your site will be broken.

So this is a good trick on the part of Frontpage. Enables you to handle a site with hundreds of files. Changeable files. html files.

A server without Frontpage extensions is a bit of a bummer, shouldn't be in this day and age.

Images are never part of web pages.

Download a few web pages and look at them.

Better still click on View/Source and stare at the .html for the pages. You won't see any images. You'll see image links. The .img link shows where the image is. It could be anywhere. Keeping them in an image folder is neat, handy, useful.

If your image link points to a directory on your hard drive then when that page is uploaded to a server somewhere that link will be broken.

Unless it is 'published' (there's that word... frontpage calls it 'publishing' to upload your site like this) by frontpage. If it is created on your hard drive as a web site by frontpage and 'published' by frontpage then all links will survive the change. no problem.

If ever a link doesn't survive the change check the .html on the server you've uploaded to. Look at the link. See where it points and then go there and see if that location and that file exist.

How do you 'check the .html'? Just browse to the page and view/source.

regards,

ab



Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (7/3/2006 14:09:03)

Hi ab,

I will be honest and tell you I don't entirely grasp what you've written, but I do understand most of it.

I think, part of my problem, is that I've been making folders on my hard drive, and putting each page into them. However, the images were someplace else, so even though I can see the image in FP after I've inserted it, when I publish it, the images aren't there.

I think I've finally figured out that the webpage and the images have to be in the "same place" on my hard drive, in order to have everything publish.

However, I was wondering, if I am working on more than one site, is there any way to separate them into individual folders? Otherwise, they will get all mixed up.

Hope I'm making some sense.

The GOOD news is that I just published my first brand new page, and it worked! Up until now, I've only been editing, so I'm quite pleased to know that there is hope for me!

Thanks, ab.



swoosh -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (7/3/2006 14:16:46)

quote:

However, I was wondering, if I am working on more than one site, is there any way to separate them into individual folders? Otherwise, they will get all mixed up.


Sure there is....just make those folders as you wish.....you can even put folders within folders for better organization that way your different sites will be separated and not all in one place



abrogard -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (7/4/2006 0:39:45)

Hi...

you should be aware I'm a beginner at FrontPage and the whole web thing generally.

If there's ever any conflict between what I say and the other guys, like swoosh, believe them, follow their advice, not mine.

They are currently helping me with really basic, low-level, elementary stuff in these forums right now.

That being said I'll still bash on and try to say more to you.... helpfully, I hope...


Now, do you look at your .htm code? Knock up a simple test page with nothing on it but one or two images.

Pick images from wherever you like on your hard drive.

Then look at the code.

You'll see that the code 'points' to where those images are.

Now if you move that web page, that .htm file, to some server somewhere, (without doing a Frontpage 'publish' of a website) it is going to get there with those same 'addresses' for the images isn't it?

That server will look for those images in the place referred to, which is really somewhere on your hard drive. It can't see them. Can it?

Even if you put them in the same folder on the server. It still won't see them because it won't be looking there. See?


So that's why it works when you put everything in the same folder.

When they are in the same folder the 'path' (the 'address' of the image) is simply the name of it.

On your machine.

And on the server.

So as long as you send it up to the server (the image) and park it in the same folder as your page everything will be fine.


Can you see that?


If you can then you'll see the answer to your question about using more folders and making everything neat and sorting everything out.

You can do exactly that. You should do exactly that.

But what you do down on your machine you must do on the server.

So you might put your web pages at c:\mywebpages

and you might put your images in c:\mywebpages\images


In which case you'll have to make a directory on your server ... " \images ", below your home directory.


And it goes like that.

I think.

Correct me if I'm wrong, fellers.

:)





Gwen -> RE: Question about how files are saved. (7/5/2006 11:30:05)

Hi ab,

I will delve into your latest post and response in detail when I have more time, but I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks very much!



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