RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (Full Version)

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Ken of Kentropolis -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/16/2006 13:24:04)


quote:

ORIGINAL: caz

No, I am looking at the future for hobbyists.


I hope you don't mean to imply using Frontpage precludes me (or anyone) from being a web professional. It's my main tool, and I've being building and maintianing sites for a living for years. It doesn't matter that I CAN code HTML, PHP, CSS, whatever. The point is Frontpage has allowed me to focus on clients, not code.

And that has consistently put me at an advantage to the lion's share of web designers who'd rather spend the day in notepad than fix a site while actually on the phone with a customer. My customers can't wait to hit the refresh button while we're talking ...



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/16/2006 13:32:39)

quote:

No, I am looking at the future for hobbyists.

- Oh ok, I thought you were trying to pass those off as a replacement for FP. (in a reply to my question "Who is going to make an easy to use WYSIWYG that has the entire package (easy interface, web components, etc..)?"



caz -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/16/2006 19:19:58)

I certainly don't want to imply that only hobbyists use Fp, I do myself and I can produce perfectly valid and compliant work, but the difference is that I don't rely on the bots to do it for me (as if they could [:D] ). MS is clearly aiming Expressions at the professional market and in so doing needs to get rid of it's bad reputation for producing awful sites. You know the kind of stuff that is churned out by those who do not want, or see the need to hire a professional for their business sites - often a lot worse than hobbyists sites in some cases. That is the reason that Expressions does not have the point and click features of FP; I doubt that that such hand holding would be easy to accomplish in valid code either.

MS has a great hill to climb before the bad rep of FP is ever forgotten and I for one welcome their attempt to do just that because I don't want to spend my life nose buried deep in Notepad either just because ill informed 'hard coders' think that is somehow more macho/virtuous than being efficient with whatever tool you use.

The sites I listed above are the very thing for those who want a quick fix - hobbyists or tightwads.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/17/2006 0:35:57)

quote:

MS is clearly aiming Expressions at the professional market and in so doing needs to get rid of it's bad reputation for producing awful sites.

- Except you are claiming that a professional cannot make a website using frontpage, that is 100% wrong. The webbot code is contained in comments, so that should validate. The output of the component is pure html, so that can be made to validate.

quote:

The sites I listed above are the very thing for those who want a quick fix - hobbyists or tightwads.

- Those sites are NOTHING compared to FP 03. I have used quite a few online tools, none have compared even slightly to FP. Nice try tho.



Ken of Kentropolis -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/17/2006 7:39:05)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyDouglas

... Except you are claiming that a professional cannot make a website using frontpage, that is 100% wrong. ...


Bobby -

That's how Caz came off a bit, but I don't think that's what he's saying. It's just that FP is so easy to start using that every yahoo thinks they can build a site with it. It takes skill to get the full power out of the thing, while many sites built with it make it clear the user doesn't even know how to use shared borders.

I don't hide the fact I use Frontpage, but I have to often explain why I do -- almost apologetically. It DOES have a bad rap because it's so "accessible" to anyone who doesn't know web design, both in price and learning curve.



caz -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/17/2006 9:55:31)

Oh for goodness sake Bobby, read what I said,

quote:

I certainly don't want to imply that only hobbyists use Fp, I do myself and I can produce perfectly valid and compliant work



jaybee -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/17/2006 10:13:43)

quote:

Except you are claiming that a professional cannot make a website using frontpage,
No she wasn't.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Future of FrontPage Discussion (10/17/2006 14:15:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaybee

quote:

Except you are claiming that a professional cannot make a website using frontpage,
No she wasn't.

- I'm glad that's not what she meant. It just seems to imply that from reading the comments, even Ken pointed it out too.

If you know of any decent programs to replace the good parts about FP, I'm all hears.



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