Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (Full Version)

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Kerrith -> Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 5:10:26)

I just refurbished my website (new store-bought template, java scripts, etc.) using EWD beta 1. ( see Communication Skills Tutorial for Managers )

I'd appreciate some feedback.

Thanks,

Kerry



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 5:43:13)

Interesting Kerry. It's the first one I've seen developed for real in EW and goes some way to proving what I suspected would happen.

Out of the box EW produces compliant code but as soon as people start to mess with the templates, navs etc it all goes pear shaped.

First off the site looks very nice, clean, clear, not mad on all the pop-ups but hey, that's just my opinion.

Now, being the geek that I am after a quick look at the page I then head straight for the code and that's where I found the interesting stuff.

The body of the page is pretty good - clean, tableless, code but where the template has gone in, or maybe where you've added some bits, tables have been used, eg. for the footer, instead of divs.

You have the doctype set to XHTML 1.1 which the code so isn't, and the validator returns 70 odd errors per page. I suggest you alter doctypes for future stuff to HTML 4.01 transitional as at the moment you're forcing the browsers into quirks mode.



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:01:18)

Thanks jaybee,

I can't blame EWD for the things you mention, I do a lot of cut and pasting. I'm just now learing how to use CSS.

I believe, but I'm not sure, that the doctype came with the template. Do you have an example of the way it should be?

Again, much thanks,

Kerry



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:10:42)

Not your fault Kerry, because people have got used to using FP and designing with tables no WYSIWYG software is going to be able to force compliant code. It's a case of retraining people to use divs for layout.

http://alistapart.com/stories/doctype/

is a very good explanation of the different doctypes, what they do and how they should look. Unless you understand html and css very well, an XHTML 1.1 doctype is never going to work for you. The template may very well have started out with that doctype and was probably quite valid at the time but your changes mean that HTML 4.01 transitional is probably the best one to go for now

Having said that, the site seems to render OK so you could leave it but if you suddenly get any weird layout problems in the future a doctype fix may be the answer.



Tailslide -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:18:18)

XHTML 1.1 is a bad idea generally because served as it's supposed to be, IE will choke on it.

Most sites around these days are served as text/html which is ok up to and including XHTML 1.0 but not ok for 1.1.

If the DOCTYPE came with the template then that's a naughty thing they did there.



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:18:48)

Have you looked at the site in the different browsers? There are layout and font differences in IE and Firefox but nothing too mad. Opera on the other hand...... actually it's quite good.



[image]local://upfiles/9075/E128194082DB455BBFAE6DD882D83489.gif[/image]



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:23:26)

Looks like this one will be better than what I have,


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

but up above in the page the author says that the url isn't necessary.

Is "loose" ok?

Kerry



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:28:45)

URL not necessary? If you meant the w3.org bit then it's absolutely necessary. What they're saying is that a lot of people copy the doctype from the W3 site. The w3 site doesn't need to use the url as it's on their site. Your site absolutely needs the URL or the doctype is going nowhere.

Loose should be fine.



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:30:17)

H'mm, my FF 1.5.06 displays it correctly as does Avant Browser.

Kerry



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:31:34)

quote:

If the DOCTYPE came with the template then that's a naughty thing they did there.
True but hey! it's a selling point. "My templates are XHTML 1.1" [:@]



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:32:27)

Great, thanks.

Loose it is[:)]

Kerry



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:33:35)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kerrith

H'mm, my FF 1.5.06 displays it correctly as does Avant Browser.

Kerry
Yes they look the same, you'll find that the font size is slightly different if you switch between IE and FF but it's nothing to worry about. I quite like the Opera jog on the heading. It's one of those things that you probably couldn't get it to do if you wanted to. [:D]



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:42:53)

So the jog in the heading in your attachment was with you using Opera. My Opera Version 9.01, Build 8552, displays it correctly. Maybe it's the electricity here in Hawaii.

I see what you mean about the font diffs with IE and FF. I think I could fix that but I'm not sure how, perhaps with 100% and default font in CSS.

Kerry



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 6:55:08)

Probably because I refuse to upgrade to 9.01 as it's so buggy. I'm on a level down.

The fonts aren't major you could go with a body font size of 100.1% the .1 being important for Opera to handle it correctly, and then make sure all your other sizes are in %ages.

I use 62.5% on some of my sites and that seems to work too but you then have to set the rest of your %ages to what looks impossibly large until you actually see it rendered.



womble -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 9:30:28)

Looks good! Like Jaybee I'm not a fan of pop-ups, but aside from that it's looking pretty good! [img]http://ecanus.net/smileys/coolup-blue.gif[/img]



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 16:22:30)

Got it. I'm thinking of making a blank web using EW and the same template to test your % trick.

Got it about Opera.

Much thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Kerry



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 16:31:06)

Thanks for the nice ack womble.

Do the drop down FAQs work for you? I just love them.

Kerry

BTW jaybee, your thumbnail attachment is a neat trick. Do you know if I could I do that (as admin) with my phpBB 20.21 Forums?



Seventh -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 17:01:04)

Hi, Kerrith.

I have to say I like where the site is going from a design aspect. I think the colors work well together and theirs a decent contrast between them. But there are a few things that take me completely in another direction while looking at it. Here goes nothing:

*DISCLAIMER: This is only an observation of what I see and my honest opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less.


1. Index/Home Page
  • Having the words "Manager Coaching" in the header and on the page seems, for lack of a better word, redundant. It almost seems like there's a glitch or something on the page.
  • The SEARCH bar seems to be centered and down the page about 80 pixels. Not sure why?
  • There seems to be an awful lot of space between the individual items in the INDEX section. Maybe narrow that space a little.
  • The actual background of the SEARCH and INDEX section looks off to me. Either give it more space from the edges or push it all the way to the edges. Right now it seems to be floating with no purpose.
  • The text in the body should definitely be darker. My eyes keep going to the red areas as they stand out more.
  • The popups are driving me crazy. In IE they cover up a portion of the INDEX section and the other samples below. And when you mouseover them it almost seems like it's someone else's popup. And I think the color scheme on the popups should be White Background/Dark Text.

2. About the Coach Page

  • I think your picture should be more prominent (larger). As it is now it makes me want to click it for a larger view as it resembles a thumbnail.
  • The SEARCH bar is in a totally different spot.
  • Lot of space between the horizontal line and References.
  • Again, the content text should be darker.

3. Privacy Policy Page

  • Why are the words 'Manager Coaching' not on this page?
  • Again, the content text should be darker.

4. Contact Us Page

  • Comment/Question should be near the top of the box.
  • The 'Webmaster' thingy should be better defined since they're already on the contact page. Example: Click here to contact the webmaster by email.


That's pretty much it for now.



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 18:55:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kerrith

Thanks for the nice ack womble.

Do the drop down FAQs work for you? I just love them.

Kerry

BTW jaybee, your thumbnail attachment is a neat trick. Do you know if I could I do that (as admin) with my phpBB 20.21 Forums?
Depends on your set up and what add-ons you have. On mine people can post images as long as they're hosted, I didn't want them uploading stuff.



womble -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 20:23:32)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kerrith
BTW jaybee, your thumbnail attachment is a neat trick. Do you know if I could I do that (as admin) with my phpBB 20.21 Forums?

SMF can do it with no add-ons straight out of the box (so much more lovlier than phpBB) [;)]. I've just converted all my phpBB's to SMF, and the nice thing with the converter is that it doesn't touch your existing phpBB installation, just sets up a duplicate copy of your forum in SMF.

/is happy now I've done my promoting SMF bit for the day [;)]

The FAQs aren't working for me - in Firefox and Opera they're already dropped down. Working fine in IE7 though.



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 20:51:00)

Hi Seventh,

Wow, great feedback!

Unfortunately I'm very much attached to popups however, I'm thinking of experimenting with having them pop up to another frame, say the gray one on the left, at least the defined words.

I deleted Manager Coaching from the body. Never would have thought of it but for your advice. It now supports my philosophy. I hold that most sites have way too much stuff (what we call noise) that gets in the way of communications. So, my idea has been to keep it simple and as clean and spacious as possible. Thanks.

I found hidden crap above the search code and it's now top left aligned for all pages. Thanks

The search background is part of the design of the template. I'm reluctant to change it. My motivation for the new template, the other one had been running for about 5 years, was that my friend designed and gave me an order of business cards that have all the colors on the web page. I must say, it looks very classy. It was only by luck that I found a template that matched the cards.

Just to be clear, you'd prefer that the mouseover pop up (click to enlarge) of my photo be larger? Or do you mean that you'd like the original thumbnail to be larger and pop to an even larger photo? I guess I'm trying to minimize my already huge ego [:D]

Re: Body text font color: I'm attached to the color of the font unless you think that all bolded would stand out mo betta.

Re: "Lot of space between the horizontal line and References. " This is my attempt at poetic licence. Also, to me it's easier to mouse and click than hyperlinks that are piled one on top of the other. Artistically with them spread out they seem to balance the mass of text to the right.

Privacy Policy Page


Why are the words 'Manager Coaching' not on this page? I thought it would be nice to vary the page size and forgot to title it Manager Coaching. Now in the interests of uniformity I've made it identical to the other pages.

Contact

Comment/Question should be near the top of the box. Fixed. Thanks

The 'Webmaster' thingy should be better defined since they're already on the contact page. Example: Click here to contact the webmaster by email. Fixed.

Thanks so much for taking the time for your thoughtful critique.

Much appreciation,

Kerry






Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/15/2006 21:59:44)

Thanks. I knew that about FF and Opera. forgot to mention it.

I just installed smf. Will test drive it for a while.

Kerry



womble -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 5:23:38)

That's what I did with mine - installed a test one and had a play around and got to grips with all the features and differences between it and phpBB, then finally took the plunge and converted the rest of mine a couple of weeks ago



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 5:38:18)

I'm disappointed. I was hoping it had the ability to change the colors of the header and the category and forum fields and the various columns. I want to a board with the same colors as my website.

Kerry



womble -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 6:16:25)

It does - you can change all the background colours and stuff just by changing the CSS in the main style.css sheet that you can edit via the admin panel.



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 8:19:10)

Yes Kerry SMF is completely stylesheet driven you can't change things through the admin panel as you do with phpBB. Darn confusing IMHO as you end up with styling in 2 places.

SMF should have a tutorial on using your own templates and naming them so they don't get overwritten when you do a forum upgrade. It think the tutorial is called Womble! [:D]

Ahhh if only I had the time to play with SMF but alas, real work calls.



womble -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 8:59:35)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaybee
SMF should have a tutorial on using your own templates and naming them so they don't get overwritten when you do a forum upgrade. It think the tutorial is called Womble! [:D]

[:D] Yep, and after doing three upgrades/conversions of the damned things over the last couple of weeks, I've had more practice at doing it than can surely be good for a furry little creature.

My consultancy fees are very reasonable. [;)]



Seventh -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 14:39:14)

Glad I could be of help, Kerrith. If you will, allow me to clarify a couple of things. I was a little sore from playing football with the neighborhood kids and the medication hadn't kicked in fully yet. ;-)

POPUPS
You state that YOU are very much attached to popups. Is the site for you or for your visitors? I'm looking at it from a potential visitor standpoint.

SEARCH BACKGROUND
I wasn't asking you to delete it, just reposition it. Either move it flush with the edge on the left or add another 4-6 pixels of space at the left and top margin. Right now it seems as if it's just floating there. Could just be a personal thing.

YOUR PHOTO
Your photo is approximately the same size as a thumbnail would be. When I first went to the page I, for some strange reason, was drawn to click on it to see if the picture would resize or something. I just think the photo should be a little larger. Another 20% should do it. Again, could just be a personal thing.

FONT COLOR
If you're attached you're attached. And no, all bold would not be a good thing. Yet, the darker red color still takes the visitors attention away from lighter brown color. I would think you would want them to focus on the content and not the links.

Overall, I still like where it's heading. Simple and clean.



Kerrith -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 15:41:38)

Hi Seventh,

Good point about the popups.

I'm not that skilled at HTML ergo FP & EW, so I don't know where/how to follow your suggestion — "Either move it flush with the edge on the left or add another 4-6 pixels of space at the left and top margin." that, and I can't see what floating you're talking about. Viewing with IE? The template is supposed to have two light grey(? ) on either side of the body and left nav bar.

I'm not sure but my friend said that I could resize downwards but once done then to resize larger would cause fuzzyiness. Yes? He's the one who took the photo and made both sizes for me.

Again, thanks so much for the feedback.

Kerry



jaybee -> RE: Need critique for refurbished via EWD site (9/16/2006 17:29:55)

Yes, going back up is a bit of a problem. You need to get the original and shrink it less.



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