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Nicole
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Sub-contracting . . . - 9/23/2006 3:26:16
My contract states that I may sub-contract work out to the companies listed in Appendix F, at the moment Appendix F is blank.
With the next few months to a year potentially being disruptive and rather hectic in terms unrelated to work, I’m wanting to populate my list of sub-contractors and have a few questions regarding this.
Some of the people I’d like to add to Appendix F in my contract are Outfront members, but what do I put in Appendix F? Just their business name? Their business name and contact person, do I put the email address of these sub-contractors, remembering that this will be the contract that clients receive?
Once somebody has agreed to sub-contract, do they need to sign a sub-contractors contract? I mean I’d like them to sign something to say that they follow web standards and accessibility guidelines, and will finish a task within a time frame. Is it usual that sub-contractors sign contracts?
Also, do I mention to the client that their job is or has been sub-contracted out, or do I just leave it as something in the contract that they may read or not?
Nicole
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Tailslide
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 9/23/2006 5:05:20
Personally, I'd always use a contract with sub-contractors.
Plus, even if you mention in the contract the standards that you want them to code by, do also always include those standards in a briefing you pass onto the contractor when asking for a quote.
Allow a certain leeway so that if there's an issue which they can't get to validate or to be 100% accessible then they'll refer to you with the issue rather than just ploughing on, so that you can make an informed decision whether to go with it or insist on the standard.
I wouldn't go out of my way to tell clients I'm subcontracting. I'd put in your client contract that you reserve the right to though.
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Nicole
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 9/23/2006 6:09:28
Thanks Tail,
The reason I ask is not only because of all the house moves I've experienced and will be experiencing in the short term future and the lack of time, but also because I believe in this business it's hard to know everything about everything and quite often, especially with so many experts in different fields on these forums, there's someone who can do what you're trying to do in a fraction of the time and therefore a fractiion of the cost also.
My next house move is only about 3 weeks away, and it's already very hectic, yet this morning I received another enquiry asking me for a website with a couple of features I don't know, or just haven't the time at the moment to learn how to do. So, I figured if I still took the job, outsourced the parts I didn't know how to do or didn't have time to learn, I'd be sweet.
But before contacting anyone who is in my mental list (yes Jaybee, I have one also, but it's probably not as extensive as yours), I thought I'd run any possible requirements by my other half. He said "yes" to everything I said which I've written in the initial post in this thread, even though to me it seemed rather over the top to me at the time. I mean, I've worken on projects before where others have been involved, sure I've been the main designer and the others have reported directly to the site owner (and may have had contracts with them), but it seemed to me somewhat untrustworthy to ask for a sub-contractor, someone who you KNOW believes in the same web standards and accessibility as I do, to sign something like that.
Anyway, it's probably just a part of business that I'm not that experienced in.
Nicole
p.s. I also wondered about design credit when more than one person and therefore business is involved? Who gets the design credit? Anyone?
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coreybryant
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 9/23/2006 8:55:13
If you listed ABC Company in the sub-contractor page, what keeps me (as a customer) from going directly to ABC company and giving them my business? (Sorry just always playing devil's advocate here.)
I totally understand about protecting your business etc but I am also always about protecting myself. Maybe not divulge these company names until all contracts have been signed?
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jaybee
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 9/23/2006 9:24:54
I just put name, country and specialism. The client doesn't need to know more than that as he deals direct with me, not them. So you get
Name, Location, Specialism
Tailside Access, UK, Doctypes
Wombly Common, UK, Chocolate
Cazzy Cats, Garden Shed, Concorde
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rdouglass
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 9/23/2006 13:13:22
I am rarely ever the contractor and almost always the subcontractor.
All but 1 time that my info has been given to the client, I have been approached by that client. Usually to do some touch-up work or some such affair, but on occasion to try and get a break by cutting the contractor (meaning *you*) out of the picture. I accepted only in 1 instance because the client was leaving the contractor anyways and *only* after discussion and agreement with the contractor.
To divulge any other 'business' as a subcontractor or otherwise, you increase dramatically your chances of being percieved as a 'middleman'. That is a risky position to be in with many customers today. (Just read a few threads regarding family members taking over web development and stuff like that!)
Rather, consider maybe short bio's instead about your "associates" that you partner with instead. The few I actually head up, I don't say anything about anyone but rather speak in terms of "we".
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erinatkins
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 10/9/2006 12:19:25
I agree with Roger on this. I would mention you may use subcontractor at times but I would not mention who or offer that information out.
I do use subcontractors for some things & in general there is no need for clients to have this information unless you want to risk losing them as client.
I think it is better to stay the middle man & handle the emails & problems related to the site. It is a win - win for everyone.
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dpf
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 10/9/2006 12:27:01
quote:
My contract states that I may sub-contract work out to the companies listed in Appendix F, at the moment Appendix F is blank. That is "your" contract form isn't it? Why make life so hard? why do youneed permission to sub? you sign a contract with a customer and whether you do the work yourself or farm some of it out should be invisible to the customer - the work the sub performs would be delivered to you and you "insert" it seamlessly into the finished product.
You are making life too hard for yourself, IMHO - remove that section and get a good nights sleep
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Nicole
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 10/10/2006 5:25:22
Yeah, I'm tending to agree with those who have said not to disclose anything more than "I reserve the right to", or "may use" sub-contractors.
The main reason I asked this question though wasn't only that I know I don't know everything and may need help with certain aspects, but also because of the moves I'm experiencing and will be for the next year or so. I just thought that if I sub-contracted an entire job out I might need to let the client know.
Nicole
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dpf
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 10/10/2006 13:05:48
quote:
I just thought that if I sub-contracted an entire job out I might need to let the client know. if you go from doing all the work yourself to hiring employees would you feel an obligation to let your customers know that? I wouldn't. They hire you and you deliver the product - who built it isnt their concern. again, just MO
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: Sub-contracting . . . - 10/10/2006 22:05:52
quote:
if you go from doing all the work yourself to hiring employees would you feel an obligation to let your customers know that? I wouldn't. They hire you and you deliver the product - who built it isnt their concern. again, just MO
- Exactly how I feel...
quote:
not to disclose anything more than "I reserve the right to", or "may use" sub-contractors.
- What makes you think you even need that? Your company is being hired for the project, not you specifically.
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