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Andy from Spain
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From: Ipswich
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EWD and FP extensions - 10/3/2006 6:35:54
Hi
I've been looking at Expression Web Designer a bit more in the last couple of days and there's one thing I can't get my head round. My understanding was that Frontpage extensions were going to be scrapped yet there's still all the old webbot stuff like search, marquee, include files, shared borders etc. Is this some sort of legacy thing for Frontpage users, and is there a there a equivalent for EWD only?
Cheers
Andy
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Andy from Spain
Posts: 922
From: Ipswich
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/3/2006 11:38:55
Hi Brian
I read that earlier but I was just trying to get clarification regarding if there was going to be some replcement or will new EWD users carry on using webbots. Just seems a bit messy.
Andy
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mar0364
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/3/2006 12:26:01
After spending significant time in the program I'm wondering the same thing. For my taste I'd like to see the FP ext go away forever.
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/3/2006 13:02:17
Doesn't sound like anyone knows what is going to happen, I asked in the above thread "What is going to replace it?" and nobody has been able to answer that question.
It looks like the only way we will get the quick 1 click contact forms and such is if someone writes an extension for it directly for EWD. The extension will most likely be limited to ASP/.net only though, since MS didn't bother with support for PHP.
One of the main reasons I would use FrontPage is for their simple contact forms/hit counters, as well as a couple other great components. EWD needs something that will accomplish the same thing, without the ugly webbot code. Heck, even a text file database is better than nothing!
I'm trying not to waste too much time with EWD, if MS doesn't feel the need to provide support for the HUGE market with PHP, then they won't get my support. MS should of added the term "ASP" or something like that to it.
quote:
For my taste I'd like to see the FP ext go away forever.
- They are right at the point now where they actually are starting to away. I've talked with cPanel (one of the largest control panels for unix/linux) and they plan to keep FPSE until it becomes too insecure to offer it. I'm not sure what the updates and such are like for FPSE. If FPSE don't need to be updated, then they will stay for a very long time. Once cPanel drops support for FPSE, TONS of hosts/clients will be left hanging. I just did another site last week, took me a little over a minute to insert a complete contact form with confirmation and results via e-mail.
Right now the download information for FPSE for unix/linux has been removed from the developer's website. It is no longer being released on their site, however, it is still available elsewhere.
< Message edited by BobbyDouglas -- 10/3/2006 13:15:13 >
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BobbyDouglas
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/5/2006 13:39:15
This is interesting...
quote:
we believe that your best solution may well be moving into a more managed web environment like SharePoint, where the vagaries of html and standards compliance will not impact you.
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Thomas Brunt
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/5/2006 15:42:51
It is interesting.
Actually, I'm going to Vegas in a few weeks to find out exactly what that means.
t
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caz
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/5/2006 18:04:23
Thanks for that link Andy, things are a little clearer now - only a little mind. I was glad to read this,
quote:
FPSE actually plays two distinct roles for Microsoft’s HTML editors. The first is the role you may already be familiar with: FPSE communicates with your web server to download and upload files. This part of FPSE also makes link fix-up work. This is not the feature we are removing. Expression Web will continue to support the ability to use FPSE as a way to connect to your web server and perform link fix-up.
Phew, publishing and site management is a feature that I would miss if it was to be done away with. But the future of FP Includes seems unclear to me, they do not need FPSE to work but even so they appear to be dropping them- why? They are a very handy design time feature and I would find it a pain to have to use SSI using a server to see the design result.
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Thomas Brunt
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/6/2006 10:30:54
Are you sure MS IS dropping include pages?
I've used them on a few EW projects recently.
t
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Andy from Spain
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/6/2006 14:03:10
I'm not entirely sure at all but this is what they say
Note: Even though there are bots that don’t require FPSE on your server (because FrontPage and Expression Web contained an embedded version of FPSE), bots as a whole have significant issues and, for reasons that will be explained below, we are deprecating them.
...so it does suggest that and from the comments on the blog there.
Andy
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caz
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/6/2006 15:58:51
Digging around in some of the comments there I found a link to this blog - why can't MS just put it all together 
More about includes
quote:
There has been quite a bit of discussion about our last blog post, so I wanted to take a few minutes to respond to some of the persistent themes found in people’s comments. Specifically, I wanted to address the following two concerns:
1. That Includes should not have been removed along with the rest of the bot functionality.
2. That Page Transitions should have been removed.
First, let’s talk about Includes. When we first planned to remove bots, we knew that customers would find some pieces of functionality missing that they would want put back into the product (though not necessarily in the same form). Our plan has been that some of these components (for example Includes and the Photo Gallery) would be seen again in future releases of the product, though after redesigns that gave them additional functionality and/or made them more designer-friendly (in other words, fixing the issues that caused us to remove the features in the first place.
We agree, though, that this may not be enough in the case of Includes, since:
1. They are already standards-compliant
2. They do not require FPSE to be used correctly
3. They are extremely useful for keeping large sites maintainable.
For this reason, we will be providing an Add-In after RTM that re-enables the ability to insert new Includes in Expression Web. In the mean time you can use Cheryl Wise’s snippet-based workaround for adding Includes, which can be found at http://by-expression.com/quick-bits/includes/index.aspx. Finally, in a future release you should expect to see a version of Include-like functionality re-integrated directly into the product.
Clarified I think - we'll just have to wait. 
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Andy from Spain
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/6/2006 16:58:41
Good find, Caz! The wording is MS-like
quote:
Finally, in a future release you should expect to see a version of Include-like functionality re-integrated directly into the product.
So that's a definite maybe, some time in the future that may provide something similar-like?
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caz
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/6/2006 18:52:29
The link for snippet based includes in the quote above should now read includes by snippet.
This is for adding new includes, rather than on pages that already have FP Includes. I guess that we will have to use this rather clunky fix until MS see fit to add it to a future release.
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Peter
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/5/2008 9:44:23
Hi Caz:
I know that this is a forum that has not been updated for a long time, but it's relevant to me today, as I make the move (I hope) from FrontPage to Expression Web for my www.edinphoto.org.uk web site.
Ive already made extensive use of 'include pages' on my site, and I would like to add more. I believe that there may be some other functionality provided in Expression Web to achieve the same resut, but anything that involves 'server side' would be no good for me.
In your post on June 10, 2006, you quoted Microsoft:
"... we will be providing an Add-In after RTM that re-enables the ability to insert new Includes in Expression Web. In the mean time you can use Cheryl Wise’s snippet-based workaround for adding Includes, which can be found at http://by-expression.com/quick-bits/includes/index.aspx. Finally, in a future release you should expect to see a version of Include-like functionality re-integrated directly into the product."
Do you know the latest position?
1. Have Microsoft provided for 'include pages' or equivalnt, and if so, what are they called and where can I find them in Expression Web?
2. If not, is there a workaround such as the one mentioned above. (The lnk to that one seems to be no longer active.)
Thanks for your help.
- Peter
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caz
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/5/2008 14:22:47
The link above is replaced by this one. But note that this is applicable to Expression Web 1, I have no knowledge of EW2 but imagine that it would be a transferable method.
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Peter
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From: Edinburgh
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/5/2008 15:42:52
Hi Caz.
Thanks for the quick reply. I hope it didn't take you too long to find the new link for me.
Fortunately it is Experssion Web 1 that I have, and I have no plans to upgrade to EW2.
However, I've now looked at the link that you gave me. The explanation in that link looks to be clear and well written for sombody who knows what they are doing and has had experience of adding snippets, but that's not me. So for the moment at least, I'll not risk trying to add the snippet and getting it wrong.
That leaves me with another question. Please see below.
BACKGROUND:
1. I've been happy using FrontPage for several years to build my web site. I've been happy using the program. I have not changed to Expression Web even though I bought a copy of Experssion Web a couple of years ago.
2. All worked well until a couple of weeks ago, when Front Page Server Extensions 'went down' for the site, and could not be recovered. My host company told me that the site now had far too many files for FPSE to work reliably.
3. So I asked for FPSE to be removed from my web site. That has been done, and I have just published the site again (without FPSE).
4. The only FPSE feature that I have been using recently on my site is Themes. So, I thought perhaps now was the time for me to move to using Expression Web to update the site, then I'd be able to use Expression Web's cascading style sheets to set the default font and page backgrounds that I've set to date using FrontPage Themes.
5. The only downside I could see in moving to Expression Web now was that Expression Web would not allow me to add any more 'include pages' to the site. Hence my interest in the code snippet (until I realised today the level of knowledge that might be needed to add the snippet).
QUESTION:
So how about this for a way forward. Will it work?
6. I could open my site in Expression Web and create a CSS to set the default font and page background for all pages on the site.
7. I could then go back to using Front Page (still without FPSE) to make updates to the site in the future, adding more 'include pages' when I needed them.
I look forward to hearing your coments.
Thanks.
- Peter.
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Peter
Posts: 215
From: Edinburgh
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/9/2008 6:50:12
Hi Caz and others
SUCCESS:
I was feeling a bit braver this morning, so I tried uploading the Design Time Includes snippet into my Expression Web program, as recommended above - and it works. I'm now able to add more 'include pages' to my site, when I edit the site using Expression Web. Thanks for the help.
However, that still leaves me with two questions.
QUESTION 1:
I've just started using Expression Web and would like to keep using it rather than go back to using FrontPage, but I found, today, that some of the images on my site do not appear when I view the site using Expression Web. They do appear when I view the site using FrontPage, and they do appear when the live site is viewed over the Internet.
Do you have any idea why this might be Here (below) is one of the pages that is not displaying correctly in Expression Web. Expression Web is just displaying a 'x' for the main picture, but is displaying the thumbnail images correctly on the page, and when I click on the link to 'enlarge this photo' Expression Web displays all the pictures correctly on the page that opens:
http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_my_p_edwk_r/0_my_photographs_edinburgh_at_work_-_royal_bos_burning_banknotes_jq16_edw159.htm
QUESTION 2:
I recently removed FrontPage Server Extensions from my site. So my main reason for moving to Expression Web is to enable me to use Expression Web CSS to set the default font and background pictures (that used to be set by FPSE) for all pages on the site.
If I continue to have the problems mentioned in QUESTION 1, would it be all right for me to use Expression Web CSS as mentioned above, then go back again and continue updating the site using FrontPage?
- Peter
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Peter
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From: Edinburgh
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RE: EWD and FP extensions - 10/11/2008 18:01:59
Hi:
I've not received any answers to the above, so I'll try posting the question under a more appropriate heading in the Expression Web forum and see if anybody answers it there.
- Peter
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