general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (Full Version)

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mtfm -> general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 15:42:23)

I have a question-- I work on a company intraweb, which is split into numberous subwebs for each department. I thought for a long time that the server didn't support server-side programming (such as asp, php, cgi, perl, etc). I figured this was done on purpose, because they wouldn't want someone messing up the server and/or introducing security issues that a poorly-written program could do.

However, one of the IT people has recently told me the server does indeed support perl, shell, C, cgi, asp and probably php, (he wasn't sure on PHP). As such, I went and tried all the different tutorials I could get my hands on, to no avail. I tried the real simple "hello world" versions, and got nada. So I googled some more, and as near as I can tell, one must have access to the root of the web for these to work, is that correct?


ie I think I need access to 
www.companyintraweb.com
instead of just to 
www.companyintraweb.com/mysubsite


I don't have access to the root, and I doubt I will be able to get it.

SO-- the reql question-- does anyone know if any of these languages (perl, shell, C, cgi, asp or php) can be implemented from within a subweb?

thanks
Andrew



rdouglass -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 16:20:06)

quote:

SO-- the reql question-- does anyone know if any of these languages (perl, shell, C, cgi, asp or php) can be implemented from within a subweb?


The simple answer is "Yes". The qualifier is that usually they have to be 'enabled'. What specifically have you tried? To test ASp, you can have a simnple 1 line statement:

<%="Hello World"%>

on a page *but* the page *must* have an ASp extension and ASP needs to be enabled on the server. Are the last 2 conditions met on your site?



BobbyDouglas -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 16:53:40)

cgi/perl scripts usually are required to a specific cgi-bin.

Try the simple hello world that pointed out above (for asp), also make a new page and save it at phpinfo.php

put the following in it: 
<?php
phpinfo();
?>



mtfm -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 17:53:35)

Ok, thanks.

I tried the above and it still doesn't work. I made sure to use the proper extensions, published it to the server (I'm using FP2003) and viewed it with IE. Not the "preview" version of IE but the real thing.

On the PHP page I got nothing but the ASP page I got a "do you want to open or save this file" popup which (as I understand it) means that ASP is not supported/enabled.

Given that I have it from IT that it is supported, it should be a "simple" [sm=rotfl.gif]matter of enabling it (or more accurately having IT enable it for me).


One other question if I may, is it possible to enable one (or any) of these languages on a subweb without enabling them on the rest of the server?

Thanks again for your replies and input, I really appreciate it! I find that with IT people, (as in life in general) you get a lot more of a response if you say "here's what I'm trying to do, here is my problem, and here's what I've tried, can you do xxx for me" rather than "this doesn't work! fix it!"

Without your input I'd be in the latter group and never get anything done on this subject!

-a



BeTheBall -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 18:15:36)

quote:

One other question if I may, is it possible to enable one (or any) of these languages on a subweb without enabling them on the rest of the server?


I can only speak for ASP, but the answer would be no, it's not possible. ASP is enabled at the server level, not the site level. My suspicion is that other scripting languages are similar.



BobbyDouglas -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 19:01:58)

quote:

I tried the above and it still doesn't work.

- Right-click the php page and view the source, does it display the actual PHP code? Or nothing at all?



mtfm -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 19:54:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BobbyDouglas

- Right-click the php page and view the source, does it display the actual PHP code? Or nothing at all?



It shows the code, exactly like it was typed in.

Also, just to clarify- I tried it initially by just putting it into the body of a "normal" page (ie html, head, and body tags). That displays nothing in the browser.

If I just put the code itself in, no other tags/etc, then I get the code displayed in the browser as text.

Either way, when I look at the code of the finished page, I get the exact code that I put in to begin with.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeTheBall
ASP is enabled at the server level, not the site level. My suspicion is that other scripting languages are similar.


That's what I figure too so I went back to the email that started me on this. It says "the server supports..." obviously there is a difference between something being supported
and enabled. Looks like to get things to work I would have to petition for server-wide enablement (which is unfortunately not likely). AFAIK nobody else is using asp or php, so I doubt they'd enable it just for me.

As a plus, though, in poking around a little bit I found a page in another dept that does use CGI-- so I know for a fact that CGI is available and enabled. I just don't have access to the cgi-bin and am expecting that's why I can't make anything work yet.

SO, I am going to see if I can get access to write to the cgi-bin and (try to) go from there. I sort of doubt I can get it, but we'll see! Or maybe I can get the person who has the CGI files in there now to put my page in there and not have to get my permissions upgraded...that might be the line of least resistance...

Thanks again for all your help guys! [:)]



BobbyDouglas -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/9/2006 21:44:37)

quote:

It shows the code, exactly like it was typed in.

- That means your server isn't configured for php, most likely php isn't even installed.

Contact your server admin.



rdouglass -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/10/2006 10:50:15)

Just want to clarify something: you are saving these pages with the appropriate file extensions aren't you? (as in mypage.asp)



mtfm -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/12/2006 10:49:08)

yep, I doublechecked that this morning.

(sorry for the late reply, I was enjoying a well-deserved day at the lake!)

It looks like the information I was given initially is correct-- I don't have access to any server-side languages (which just stinks but I can see why they'd do it that way, from a security perspective).

I'm working on getting access to the cgi-bin area, either myself or by proxy and then will probably be back with 10 million cgi questions.... [:D]



rdouglass -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/12/2006 11:12:25)

quote:

I don't have access to any server-side languages (which just stinks but I can see why they'd do it that way, from a security perspective).


Server side languages are not in-and-of-themselves unsecure. Bad implementations of them *are* insecure. What may happen is a non-experienced admin will setup directories to allow all kinds of stuff like upload, read, write, and execute scripts. That'll leave your server 'wide open' obviously. Things like that.

I think your host admin has issues regarding that to not allow any server side scripting. How would you ever do dynamic content like databases?

If I were you, Id' see about a different host. I don't believe they will be much help to you if you have a ny scripting issues that require host intervention....

Or sounds like they are an in-house host and you may not have any choice...[:(]



mtfm -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/12/2006 11:49:52)

yep, it's all inhouse.

No choice on things, else I probably would have moved on. Trying to even get an answer on what is (or is not) available is like pulling teeth. It's even worse trying to get something previously unavailable to be made available. It took me a month of effort to even get access to publish to the server using Frontpage! [sm=BangHead.gif]

And I see what you're saying about the server-side not being insecure by themselves-- but I taught myself HTML and javascript, and would probably do the same with any other languages I ended up using. Same thing with the other intraweb publishers, there isn't a specific training class to learn the "best practices." I would take the time, put in the research, and do my best to make a secure implementation before putting it into practice. The other intraweb publishers probably would too, but all it takes is one person (of many) to not do so for a security risk. If I 'owned' the server I'd probably lock it down too, to be honest.

SO, it's fast becoming clear that I won't be able to do much in the way of dynamic content. I had some big ideas, but I have to work within the framework provided... like I say I might get cgi (maybe)-- but it looks like that's it.



rdouglass -> RE: general question on CGI, perl, php, asp, and other server-side languages (10/12/2006 12:39:47)

quote:

but I taught myself HTML and javascript,


Actually you can do a surprising number of things with JavaScript and being in-house probably means intranet which may mean you have significant control over the browser platform.

Are you running MS Office? If you're doing intranet stuff, you can also do quite a bit with Office Web Components. That may be OK with your host.

My last option would be to somehow fund your own box for IIS in your own department. It really is not difficult to implement relatively secure ASP behind corporate firewalls and such; especially if you're using Active Directory.



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