Keep Using FP or move to EW? (Full Version)

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powersitedesign -> Keep Using FP or move to EW? (10/17/2006 13:46:03)

I have read posts by others and their take on EW but I just can't make up my mind whether I am going to be able to completely abandon Frontpage altogether.

For the most part i like EW but do have 2 complaints or concerns rather...

Preview Mode: In CTP1 I didn't see a preview mode? (It may be included in Beta, I am downloading that now) I liked this because out of habit I would refer back to it to make sure things were looking the way I wanted them to. Especially after dropping in some javascripts, forms, etc. into codeview.

Add-Ins, I have several add-ins running on FP that I really like, one of which the developer who wrote the add-in no longer supports it nor has plans to update it going forward.

Aside from those two issues I think that I really like the way it operates. It definitely produces cleaner product at the end of the day and it's also nice to see that it doesn't automatically generate those _vti_cnf directories automatically for you...

I think that we will likely keep using FP until the final release of EW and then make the move soon thereafter but I don't see myself uninstalling FP2003 anytime soon... :-)



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (10/17/2006 14:06:00)

Going from FP to EW will be a DOWNGRADE for me, and many others. However, there will be TONS of other people who will benefit from EW.

I have a feeling that EW will be the ASP only version of DW. Since I don't work in ASP at all anymore, I see no benefit of going with EW.

Before you decide if you should upgrade to EW, think about how you will benefit, and how you wont. Do you rely on the FP Web Components for every site? If so, EW isn't for you. Are you tired of the horrible FP03 code? If so, EW is for you.



powersitedesign -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (10/17/2006 18:15:50)

A vast majority of what we do is .php anyway so we haven't done a whole lot of asp or frontpage extension type of development. i just have a personal things that i would like to see added, the preview mode is the one that really gets me. :-) I wish that they would go back and add that in.



jaybee -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (10/19/2006 11:42:20)

No, forget preview mode. Reason being it wan't always correct. It's just as easy to have IE and FF windows open and then preview in those which you know will look right as they're the real thing. Just a case of getting used to working a bit differently.

I thought that no preview pane would be the one thing that put me off but it doesn't, EW is so much more intuitive that I've pretty much dumped FP. Ideally I'd like EW with php support but that's not going to happen.



paz1967 -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (11/25/2006 12:12:38)

If Im correct (I must have made terrible error once) once you had saved a page in Frontpage you could not then 'undo changes' . It was great when i discovered one could do that in DW.

I have been reluctant ever since to preview an edited page in a brwoser because Frontpage and now Expression both insist you save the edited version prior to previweing it... Does this allow you to then undo the changes you have just made?



jaybee -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (11/25/2006 12:18:39)

Yes, as long as you haven't closed the page you just hit the undo arrow on the top toolbar and it takes you back step by step.Both EW and FP allow that.



Pheasant -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/2/2006 18:11:12)

I am undecided wether to get Expressions and would like your opinion.
Here is my situation:

I am a woodworker by trade but am trying to learn enough to keep my
current web site operational. I currently have FP 2002.

I have no desire to become a fulltime web master but am learning
just enough to be dangerous. Perhaps someday I will redo my site into something better. (My current site was built thru templates my Host provided)

I have heard that Expressions is geared more to the professional web
person.

So should I upgrade to Expressions or maybe upgrade to 2003, since the
price of that item should be on the way down?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.



OscarSierra -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/4/2006 14:22:07)

In regards to the missing preview, I think EW is better! I use a dual graphic card and two monitors, then IE on the right monitor and EW on the left. Ctrl + S and the F12 button........ can't be a better preview :-)

You can also add other browsers that will be launched when using the "Preview in Multiple Browsers" option!

- Oystein



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/4/2006 15:20:50)

FP 02 should be perfectly fine for what you want. It doesn't sound like there is anything in 03 that would benefit you. MS basically made it a bit more user friendly, with a lot cleaner code. Stay far away from EW, it isn't for you.



powersitedesign -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/4/2006 16:08:47)

Oscar - Thanks for your post, i recently did add another monitor to my development machine and that does seem to help out w/ the preview mode a little bit.



_gail -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/27/2006 12:11:38)

Admittedly I haven't been following the FP/EW transition so forgive me if I'm asking a silly question.

How much time do I have with FrontPage? I guessed it would be either/or but judging from this thread it doesn't seem like I'm going to have to dump FrontPage for Expressions, right?

I've literally gone out of the web design business, having given up all my clients. However, I maintain two simple FrontPage sites: one for my daughter's business and one for my sister's business. They are basically online brouchures.

So, can I keep using FrontPage into the foreseeable future?

thanks, gail




Thomas Brunt -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/27/2006 13:45:34)

I would say that 60 to 70% of my hosting clients will still be using FP this time next year. That number will gradually errode, but I bet I still have FP users hosting with me 5 years from now.

It's almost 2007, and I have a few customers who use FP98.

Some webmasters have no plans to build new sites or overhaul the design of their current site. It does the job they want it to do and probably will for many years. I see no reason for that group to upgrade.

Some webmasters want their old sites to stay as they are, but they want to build new sites with more efficient code. To them I say buy the upgrade, but keep FP installed to manage your older sites. I think that's how most of my customers will approach the matter.

t



_gail -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/27/2006 14:13:50)

Thanks, Tom...

I feel relieved that I won't have to start over from scratch for just two sites that hardly require any work.

Looked a bit at your Expressions site. Very nice!

gail



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/27/2006 16:15:34)

FrontPage Server Extensions should remain installed for most servers until a significant security hole is found. Nobody will know when that is, but when it does happen, people who rely on FPSE will suffer. They will find they FPSE are being dropped from their host, and there won't be a single thing they can do about it.

Hosts that do keep the unpatched FPSE on their server will leave a huge door open for people to come in, and steal/view/hack your stuff.



jaybee -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/27/2006 19:30:28)

quote:

Effective June 30, 2006 the Microsoft FrontPage 2002 Server Extensions for the Unix environment are end-of-life. There are no plans in the Internet community to support future versions of Unix FrontPage Server Extensions. Later versions of FrontPage do support FTP for updating your website. However, the extension features such as emailers and bulletin boards will not be supported by our servers. FrontPage is still an effective tool for maintaining your website using the FTP function.


http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/frontpage/default.aspx

http://www.pdxtc.com/wpblog/archives/285




_gail -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/28/2006 11:14:43)

Interesting information.

I'm a bit confused about something I've read, unless I'm simply misunuderstanding it.

It says you'll no longer be able to publish with FrontPage but you can FTP by using FrontPage FTP client. What is that (unless it means opening a site live in FrontPage and working on it, as I frequently do)?

Thanks.



Thomas Brunt -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/28/2006 11:51:02)

You can publish the same old FP way and use FP forms and bots as long as your host keeps FP server extensions. Everyone that I talk to seems convinced that will be a very long time in most cases.

Some hosts who don't have many FP clients to begin with will probably drop server extensions pretty soon. Some will just stop offering them on new sites. Others will continue on as they have since FP98. There are well known security issues, but they have not been terribly problematic for the kind of sites that tend to use FP.

t



Tailslide -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/28/2006 11:58:35)

Don't take this the wrong way Thomas as it's definitely not directed at you - but isn't there the risk that the few hosts still offering FP extensions a while down the line will end up seeing the opportunity to charge their clients a fair bit more than they might otherwise pay? I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm a big pessimist!



Thomas Brunt -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (12/28/2006 14:18:37)

It's certainly logical to project that a decrease in competition would result in an increase in prices, but we're not talking about a lot of money when we're talking about single site monthly hosting fees. I can't imagine that any increase in price would drive a webmaster to the poor house.

And the webmaster is always free to choose an alternative if a host gets out of line. It's not a switch-now-or-never type of thing.

t



slanoue -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/21/2007 2:05:46)

I used the Expression beta and from what I can tell, you don't really have to choose at this point. You can use Expression or Frontpage or both and not have it affect anything.

My site uses Frontpage and FP extensions. Using Expression beta briefly didn't make any difference. I decided I didn't like Expression, so I went back to using Frontpage. Expressions will work with sites that use FP extensions.

Expression just looks like a bad upgrade to FP if you ask me...they made a few changes here and there (enough to make some html "purists" happier about using Frontpage, and enough so that they could charge more), but it's basically the same.

I stopped using it because there were too many things I didn't like that they changed. For instance, they no longer have the title in the folder view, and no way to add it that I could see...so now I have to go into the HTML or file properties to see it or change it? That's very annoying.

There were just a lot of annoying things that they moved or put in....not worth it to me. And this is coming from someone who has had every version of FP since 97.

So I will keep using FP as long as I possibly can....

Suzanne Lanoue
The TV MegaSite, Inc.
http://tvmegasite.net




DebSpecs -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/22/2007 11:55:25)

We are in the same boat! I run an internet retail business, but I am NOT a developer by any means. I "tweak" the static pages of our site, and sometimes make very simple pages, such as customer testimonials. I love Front Page, but i'm browsing here to see if I should get Expressions.



slanoue -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/22/2007 20:41:02)

Well, unless Expressions has some new cart capatabilities that would help you out in terms of your business, I don't see any reason to change...just my opinion. Why learn a bunch of new stuff you don't need and pay more money when FP works fine? Otherwise the only benefit is support if you need it...Good luck!

Suzanne Lanoue
http://tvmegasite.net
suzanne@tvmegasite.net



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/22/2007 20:58:36)

quote:

Why learn a bunch of new stuff you don't need and pay more money when FP works fine?

- You have to think about what you need. It is a great upgrade for a lot of people, but others (like myself), won't benefit from it.

Keep in mind that there are a lot of developers currently coding asp/.net. Expression Web has an awesome integration with visual studio.

Expression Web isn't a new FrontPage, unfortunately nothing is going to be replacing FrontPage, and FrontPage is no longer going to be updated.

Read about what Expression Web offers, and see if you will benefit from it.



slanoue -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/22/2007 22:04:17)

I know that technically it's not a Frontpage upgrade, but in a sense it is...its interface is almost exactly the same, it functions mostly the same way, and you can use it with a site that has Frontpage extensions. It's not really a completely different program.

Come on, you don't think they just changed the name so they could charge more money?
So instead of buying the 2007 Frontpage upgrade, you have to buy the full version of Expressions...and this way, they can dump the Frontpage name, which a lot of people don't like (the product, not the name). I'm not saying they didn't make some major changes, but it is not really a completely different product, either.

Suzanne Lanoue
http://tvmegasite.net
suzanne@tvmegasite.net



Kitka -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/22/2007 22:13:47)

quote:

So instead of buying the 2007 Frontpage upgrade, you have to buy the full version of Expressions


You can buy an Upgrade version of Expression if you have any version of FrontPage. Upgrade is about US$90 at Amazon, full version is about US$270.



slanoue -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/22/2007 22:56:14)

Well, then, it really IS a Frontpage upgrade! LOL!!! Proves my point even more...but IMO it's a crappy upgrade.

Suzanne



RemodelingGuy -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/22/2007 23:34:34)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomas Brunt

I would say that 60 to 70% of my hosting clients will still be using FP this time next year. That number will gradually errode, but I bet I still have FP users hosting with me 5 years from now.

It's almost 2007, and I have a few customers who use FP98.

Some webmasters have no plans to build new sites or overhaul the design of their current site. It does the job they want it to do and probably will for many years. I see no reason for that group to upgrade.

Some webmasters want their old sites to stay as they are, but they want to build new sites with more efficient code. To them I say buy the upgrade, but keep FP installed to manage your older sites. I think that's how most of my customers will approach the matter.

t



I think that I will probably be in that 60-70%, as I don't use 3/4's of the available tools in FP and this is my 10 year anniversary.

That and I'm probably too chicken-poop to change.

[8|]



BobbyDouglas -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/23/2007 0:49:48)

quote:

Come on, you don't think they just changed the name so they could charge more money?

- They changed the name because it is a completely different market. The FP name wouldn't go over well with the developer community, too many newbies could make good enough sites- many people didn't like that.

quote:

I'm not saying they didn't make some major changes, but it is not really a completely different product, either.

- The way I see it, is a FP 03 is a Honda Civic, Expression Web is a civic after 500k in upgrades (kits/engine/etc). Although it is still based off of similar things (such as the overall view/layout), when compared, the two cars are for completely different drivers.

quote:

Well, then, it really IS a Frontpage upgrade! LOL!!! Proves my point even more...but IMO it's a crappy upgrade.

- People who like the way Frontpage handles its' design view, will find it an excellent upgrade, assuming they can live without the FP Web Components, and the FP themes



slanoue -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/23/2007 1:09:07)

No FP themes? Yuk...another reason to hate it.

Suzanne



DebSpecs -> RE: Keep Using FP or move to EW? (1/23/2007 17:51:45)

Does it automatically generate a "float" code? That's all I care about!



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