Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (Full Version)

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moondog -> Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/10/2007 17:32:01)

Please take a look at my website and let me know what you think.

I live in the back woods and hope to mostly cater to all the little "mom & pop" shops
around. I want to give them decent quality for the price and am curious to know if
I've even hit the mark.

my home site is moondog graphics

I will list a couple of the others I've put together as others have done rather than
expect you to check out my portfolio page.

Angie's DayCare

I Corps Main Page

Farwell Wrestling

Hope I'm not wasting everyone's time. Thanks for taking a look.

dog



Nicole -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/13/2007 18:35:53)

Hi Moondog.

You say you're in the back blocks and aiming your design work at small rural businesses and I wonder how many of these people would be using dial-up internet?

Your own site is taking over 20 seconds to load on Broadband and I therefore wonder how many dial-up users are going to bother to wait the few minutes it's going to take them to load your page - and not only your opening page but all your pages?

I turned images off to see how long it took to load - as some people do, and there were no alt attributes for your header or other images, so I had no idea what business, you are in. That was the same for the day care site, so I suspect it's the same for all those sites you listed.

Your designs are nice but you could really benefit from cleaning up your code and moving a lot of that into a style sheet. You could also use includes for common areas such as the header and this would mean that once it's been cached by a user's browser, it'd load a lot quicker for the remaining pages.




moondog -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/13/2007 21:50:36)

Hi,
Thanks for your comments on my website. Wow, I'm sort of guessing that I need ALOT of work.
I sort of knew the site would take too long to load after the first time I tried it.

Is there another way to get the effect of the "logo" that is smaller in load time?

alt attributes? what do you mean?

(I'm sure it is the same for all the other sites)

cleaning up my code? by this I'm guessing that you mean using CSS or some form of style sheet that would determine the fonts etc... for the entire page instead of me putting separate code for that all over the place?

includes? what do you mean?

see what I mean about ALOT to work on/learn?

dog



d a v e -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/14/2007 1:12:22)

not sure about the red - it's not very moon-ish! i was thinking more like blue... but that's just my opinion.

the picture on the homepage looks like a data inputter or someone working on a mainframe terminal (not even an LCD monitor!) find something that says design

oh and your business card examples are too small ;)



Tailslide -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/14/2007 2:53:14)

It looks like your navigation is made up of little applets which I think is probably what's taking so long to load.

Navigation should really be text links (even if they're hidden behind images). These applets are slow and inaccessible - and by inaccessible I mean that you can only use them with a mouse - not with the keyboard or if someone was using a screenreader because they are blind or partially sighted. They can also be blocked by users' browsers completely depending on their security settings and adblock settings. It's possible that search engines won't be able to see the links either and so wouldn't index the rest of your site (or your client's sites).

The layout also causes a scrollbar at 800px screen width - I don't know about you but I also deal with small companies and many of them still seem to work at 800x600 screen res so it's much better if you can to ensure no scrollbar at that width.

I agree with Nicole about cleaning up your code - it would be a good idea to look into more modern coding methods such as table-less layouts and CSS. This will enable you to make your site (and that of your clients) much more lightweight. It will also mean that changing the site around will be very easy - all done from a stylesheet, never messing with the content on the page at all.

Personally, if I were you and you still want to use FrontPage to design your sites - I'd switch over to only using the code view to build the layouts, get yourself a DOCYTPE (preferably a strict one) for each page and look into learning tableless design and CSS. It will be an investment in your time but it will help you offer a better service to your clients in the end.

Some useful stuff to look at:

HTML/CSS Tutorial - http://www.htmldog.com/ and http://www.cssbasics.com/
DOCTYPES - http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/

Good luck with it and let us know if you need any help!



moondog -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 13:52:20)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailslide

It looks like your navigation is made up of little applets which I think is probably what's taking so long to load.

Navigation should really be text links (even if they're hidden behind images). These applets are slow and inaccessible - and by inaccessible I mean that you can only use them with a mouse - not with the keyboard or if someone was using a screenreader because they are blind or partially sighted. They can also be blocked by users' browsers completely depending on their security settings and adblock settings. It's possible that search engines won't be able to see the links either and so wouldn't index the rest of your site (or your client's sites).

The layout also causes a scrollbar at 800px screen width - I don't know about you but I also deal with small companies and many of them still seem to work at 800x600 screen res so it's much better if you can to ensure no scrollbar at that width.

I agree with Nicole about cleaning up your code - it would be a good idea to look into more modern coding methods such as table-less layouts and CSS. This will enable you to make your site (and that of your clients) much more lightweight. It will also mean that changing the site around will be very easy - all done from a stylesheet, never messing with the content on the page at all.

Personally, if I were you and you still want to use FrontPage to design your sites - I'd switch over to only using the code view to build the layouts, get yourself a DOCYTPE (preferably a strict one) for each page and look into learning tableless design and CSS. It will be an investment in your time but it will help you offer a better service to your clients in the end.

Some useful stuff to look at:

HTML/CSS Tutorial - http://www.htmldog.com/ and http://www.cssbasics.com/
DOCTYPES - http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/

Good luck with it and let us know if you need any help!


Actually what I think is taking it so long to load is the "animated gif" logo I put in. I'd like to keep that logo with animation .... but is there anything else that would load faster? i.e. flash or something like that or would you just go away from it altogether?

800x600 res .... okay .... that's going to make me have to change it even more...but I get what you're saying.

I'm looking into CSS and DOCTYPES now.

Thanks to all of you for being so helpful. I REALLY DO appreciate it.

dog



moondog -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 13:57:20)


quote:

ORIGINAL: d a v e

not sure about the red - it's not very moon-ish! i was thinking more like blue... but that's just my opinion.

the picture on the homepage looks like a data inputter or someone working on a mainframe terminal (not even an LCD monitor!) find something that says design

oh and your business card examples are too small ;)


but maroon is my favorite color :) but thanks .... it's a color thing around here. This is Central Michigan University area as well as Ferris State University area both use maroon and yellow as their colors.

any suggestions for some FREE pics I could use to replace the pic of the woman?

business cards too small .... would you recommend using a link to a larger version (maybe a pop-up window or something like that) or make it large on that page?

dog



Tailslide -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 14:25:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: moondog

Actually what I think is taking it so long to load is the "animated gif" logo I put in. I'd like to keep that logo with animation .... but is there anything else that would load faster? i.e. flash or something like that or would you just go away from it altogether


I think it depends on how they're put together.

One of the advantages of gifs is that they're unlikely to be blocked unlike say Flash which a lot of people either block completely or at least it could have an adblock tab attached to it which is a shame.

I can't check at the moment but how big is the gif?



moondog -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 14:44:41)

Size is 150 x 146 pixels

513Kb

64 layers in ImageReady

were any of these what you were looking for?

dog



d a v e -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 14:56:46)

re: business card size - i would make them larger on the page

a quick search for free images on this forum found
http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m-347180/key-free%252Cimages/tm.htm#347180



Minix -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 16:29:59)


What does this mean in the first paragraph of the Mississippi Army page?

Welcome to the Home Page of the I Corps of the Army of the Mississippi. My name is Mark Adams and I assumed command of the I Corps in June of 2005. My main duties are to maintain this page and to keep track of who is still active in the club and who has had real life intrude to much to continue.



moondog -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 17:02:32)

Well .... the main part of the club is the American Civil War Game Club. Members join and become a low ranking officer in the Army of the South or the North. The players play a number of battles from 2 different Civil War game series. As you fight you gain points win or lose and get promoted.

When you get promoted far enough you gain command of a larger part of one of the Armies and are then asked to design, create and maintain a webpage for your Corps or Army. I have been in the club for about 7 or 8 years and as time goes by ... some of the members drop out ... usually for personal/family issues. So my job as Commander of I Corps Army of the Mississippi is to maintain I Corps' pages and keep track of all the officers assigned to my Corps. Each month we have a muster to make sure guys are still around or to find out if they've had Real Life issues come up that will keep them from gaming.

I hope that answers your question. Sorry to ramble on. If you have any further questions, just ask me.

dog



treetopsranch -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 18:26:52)

Also you may want to cloak your email address. The spammers just love the way you have it displayed.



moondog -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 18:31:29)

by cloaking do you just mean making it a link without the actual e-mail address or are you talking about something else entirely?

dog



caz -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/19/2007 19:35:43)

I think that Don is talking about obfuscating your email address so that the link harvester bots can't read it but your users will still be able to email you. I use this generator for that purpose.



Tailslide -> RE: Sort of getting started and learning as I go! (8/20/2007 3:11:24)

quote:

513Kb


That's pretty big! If you're unable to reduce the size of it then you might well be better off trying to convert it to flash.



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