What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (Full Version)

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Bpete -> What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/3/2001 10:58:20)

Old hands, please help.
I'm new to the boards, and made a post the other that I got a wonderful response to as follows:

EWD has just replied to your topic entitled - Udate page Via browser - details? - in the Beginners forum of The OutFront Forums.
This topic is located at http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005592.html

And then there was the best yet from: abbeyvet

There were excellent suggestions and links to help solve my problem of Updating a page Via browser. NOW NOTHING ...

So what's the story? Did we do something wrong?
Confused ......
Bpete




Edited by - Bpete on 12/09/2001 13:26:16

Edited by - Bpete on 12/09/2001 13:31:53



abbeyvet -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/3/2001 11:27:28)

Hi Pete,

Panic not!! I was aware that that thread somehow got lost in the forum changeover but could not remember your name to contact you again with the details.

To recap for those who have just wandered in, Pete asked about setting up a way of having someone update a single page from their browser using FP 2002. I thought there was some way of doing it using sharepoint but had no real clue about that. I did refer to a couple of cgi scripts I found but had not used:

http://www.charityware.ws/en/programs/page_updater/index.shtml (free, or charityware, version which will allow updating of one page)

http://www.perlservices.net/en/programs/page_updater_pro/index.shtml (pro version, way more powerful, infact looks amazing)

EWD then had a few problems installing it, so I decided having mentioned it I had best try it out. And I did. It was pretty easy to set up and the page it is now updating is here (ip address cos my site is in the process of being moved and that page may not be on the original server):
http://208.165.66.160/update.shtml

The link I gave you for an introduction to using cgi scripts is here:

http://stylusinc.com/cgi_installation/help.htm

The free script is a bit basic, but it is worth having a go at installing it if you think it will be enough for you. The pro one is pretty awesome in it's capabilities but would be rather more tricky to set up.

Have a read through the installation instructions here and get back with anything that does not make sense to you:
http://www.charityware.ws/en/programs/page_updater/users_guide.shtml






Katherine

++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com

"Dogs have owners, cats have staff"
Meeeooow!



Bpete -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/3/2001 11:39:33)

Whew!
Thanks Katherine.
I thought several (stolen) hours of digging and figuring were down the tubes. I'll save the links and not link to the forum from now on with the really good important stuff. I'll have the hang of to forums soon I think.
Thanks again ...
(PS saved this one to the HD)
Bpete





Spooky -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/3/2001 22:19:02)

The forums and links are different, but HOPEFULLY a search on username (or even check your profile!) will show your threads.

How good is that? :)

§ώππk₯
Database / DRW Q & A
VP-ASP Shopping cart



Bpete -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 13:16:06)

Hi Katherine,

I'm back after several days of downloading, printing and head scratching. Since you started this CGI business :)I'm back with questions. I've looked at my ISP's help pages, the tutorial you directed me to and several more. Finally I have the Page Updater4 files … they email attach them and for some reason AOL screws them up and changes the extension from zip, anyway I have them.

Now with eyes glazed over from all the different folk's ideas of what I need to know to get this cgi script to allow a user update page to be built and integrated as part of my FrontPage designed, uploaded and maintained web site, I have questions. Realizing that you told me that it's simple, let me remind you again … I'm only a FrontPage guy. Meaning that I've never had to deal with FTP'ing and chmod'ing … you get the picture (I just wanted to remind you). And the Beginner's forum says not to be embarrassed to look stupid or something to that effect.

What I really want to know at this point is what I need to know to get Page Updater V4 working in my web. Maybe I will become excited and enlightened once (if) this ever becomes a reality, but for now I've been overloaded with information that I'm not ready to process quite yet, and am left with some likely simple but gaping holes in procedure to accomplish this.

For instance, the first thing PU4 says to do is "open your FTP client" … now right off the bat, trouble!

Question #1:
Do I have a FTP client already? Is this something I can do with FP2000? I know I can FTP a web site in FP, but will it work for this project? Do I need another program (most reading suggests that I do) to get this done? If so, which one (flat learning curve please).

Question #2:
In case I'm making this too hard, can I simply open my site as normal (http) with FP and drag these files to the cgi bin folder that I can see in folder views?

Question#3:
My ISP has a Control Panel that will apparently let you set permissions of files (another adventure.) But then again they tell you not to use the File manager on FP sites (another confusion). Or for that matter if you use some other program to FTP files and change permissions to your FP maintained site, are you heading for trouble?

Quesiton#4: If I got the files up to the server and in the right places, how do we make the text changes appear on a pre-built FP web page (with graphics) in the location that's desired? Can you address the changes to a table in a FP web page?
Question#4 part 2:
What will have to be done special for this page to be handled along with the rest of the pages in the FP web? PU4 instructions say to use .shtml, will that still work with FP (no reference in FP2000 Bible)?

Question#5:
The PU4 instructions say: The standard SSI call for an Apache web server is: <!--#execc cgi="/cgi-bin/path/to/pu.cgi"--> . And ….? So are we supposed to paste this into the html of our FP page … will that work?

Question#6:
Am I supposed to change the "/cgi-bin/path/to/pu.cgi" to something else to conform to my particular paths etc., or is that the exact verbiage to use in this case?

Question#7:
What have I forgotten to ask that would stump a CGI challenged FP oriented student on their first foray into the mysterious world outside the comfort of their MSFP Truman Show like existence?

Question#8:
Do you really have the patience to help with this?

If your reply to #8 is still yes, then bless you. If not, I do understand. But there well may be others here in the beginner's forum that will benefit. I know it's hard to believe but some folks are reluctant to ask questions but still would like to know. And I really, really want to get this working!
Thanks,
Bpete






abbeyvet -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 14:12:31)

quote:
Question #1:
Do I have a FTP client already? Is this something I can do with FP2000? I know I can FTP a web site in FP, but will it work for this project? Do I need another program (most reading suggests that I do) to get this done? If so, which one


You do need and FTP client. Try WS_FTP, very simple to use, learning curve about as close to flat as can be:
http://www.ipswitch.com/products/WS_FTP/index.html

There are others that I am sure are just as good, I have always used this so I am unfamiliar with them. You can download an evaluation copy to try it anyway - though you are likely to have the same problems with AOL as you did before as it will be a zip file. There are tutorials on using it at that site also. A quick look should get you sorted - it really is quite simple.

quote:
Question #2:
In case I'm making this too hard, can I simply open my site as normal (http) with FP and drag these files to the cgi bin folder that I can see in folder views?


No. Definitely do not do this. You will need to upload your files using WS_FTP after you have downloaded it.

quote:
Question#3:
My ISP has a Control Panel that will apparently let you set permissions of files (another adventure.) But then again they tell you not to use the File manager on FP sites (another confusion). Or for that matter if you use some other program to FTP files and change permissions to your FP maintained site, are you heading for trouble?


If you are referring to setting chmod permissions on the files you upload then forget about control panels and forget about FP. Those things refer to password protecting stuff, this is a different matter. You will do it using WS_FTP.

quote:
Quesiton#4: If I got the files up to the server and in the right places, how do we make the text changes appear on a pre-built FP web page (with graphics) in the location that's desired? Can you address the changes to a table in a FP web page?


You just need to put this into your page:

<!-----Begin Included Content From Page Updater V4.0------>

<!--#exec cgi="/cgi-local/updater/pu.cgi"-->

<!-----End Included Content From Page Updater V4.0----->

I have highlighted the important bit and the following explains it a little.

This bit: <!--#exec cgi=
and this bit: -->
remain the same for all sites.

This bit
"/cgi-local/updater/pu.cgi"
refers to the path to the file on my site. So if your page is in the mail directory - ie where your home page is - your path will be the one to your cgi-bin, whatever it is called, and the script in it.

So it might look something like:

"cgi-bin/directory/pu.cgi"

where cgi-bin is the name of your cgi-bin and directory is the name of the directory within it where you put the script.

To run a command like this you need to be allowed to use Server Side Includes (SSI) by your host - check at their site - and you need to name the page you will be updating with an .shtml extension.

If you cannot use SSI there is a way of doing it with JacaScript but it is more complicated.

Question#4 part 2:
quote:
What will have to be done special for this page to be handled along with the rest of the pages in the FP web? PU4 instructions say to use .shtml, will that still work with FP (no reference in FP2000 Bible)?


Nothing special. Just put in the SSI call above and rename the page. FP will have no problems with that. Most of my sites have .shtml pages.

I think qestions 6 and 7 should have been answered by the above. I just read question 8 - the answer would seem to be Yes!

A couple of extra things occur to me.


1. CHMOD

This seems to cause a lot of heartache to people and it need not. All it does is define who is allowed do what with a file.

There are 3 digits in a chmod permission - eg 755, 666, etc. The digits refer to the levels of permission accorded to each of three sets of people:

Digit one: refers to the owner, ie you.
Digit two: refers to group, don't worry about that one, it is uusually set the same as ....
Digit three: which refers to the level of access allowed to everyone else.

The three levels of permission you can choose to give to each are given values, and the sum of the values is the chmod. So you can allow each of the above users to

read files (value=4)
write to files (value=2)
execute files (value=1)

So if you set a permission of:
777 - everyone can read, write to and execute the file.
755 - You can read write and execute, everyone else can only read and execute.
666 - everyone can read and write.

and so on.

You do not realy need to know this to apply permissions but it does help to have an idea what it means. It is very very important that you set the chmods as instructed and this is one of the main reasons why scripts fail to work when up loaded.

2. Setting CHMOD in WS_FTP
To do this just right click the file, choose the Chmod option and tick the appropriate boxes. Be aware that what appears when the chmod box comes up it not a report on the files current permission - even if it already shows the permissions you want you still need to click apply. If I remember right all you have to do for this script is set one permission - 755 - so you will be doing something like this ( the red is mine - it will not be there)





That should give you enough to be going on with.

Katherine

++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com

"Dogs have owners, cats have staff"
Meeeooow!



Bpete -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 16:17:43)

OK ... bless you Katherine! Looks like you covered all the questions I had. Now I've come up with one more.(for now)

In the setup file pu_setup.cgi, there is an instruction as follows:

>>> #If you are going to use this program on a secure server, set the full URL to THIS
#script in the above variable. For example:
#
# $SecureServer = "https://secure.foo.com/cgi-bin/invoice.cgi";
#
#We have found that if you don't do this, half of all secure setups will fail.<<<<

I'm not clear on what he means here exactly, as he is using an example "secure.foo.com". Why the double dots ie., .foo.com? My server does have the cgi-bin in a secure aera so this is sure to be an issue. My address to this file in the FP folders view woud be, www.mysite.com/cgi-bin/SubfolderName/pu_setup.cgi.

Yet this is not necessarily how it would look if you went in through the control panel ... . In other words I can't see any parallel to the example and what think a path would look like. Is this path something that will become apparant when I use the FTP program to get the files on the server?
Thanks again ... you're the best.
Bpete




abbeyvet -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 16:37:32)

I doubt you need worry about this at all.

If you were on a secure server the url to your cgi-bin would start with https - your cgi-bin is secure but it is not on a secure server. A secure server is a different matter. Just ignore this and carry on.

Katherine

++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com

"Dogs have owners, cats have staff"
Meeeooow!



EWD -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 18:51:07)

Katherine- wonderful information, well explained. One question - I have always thought when uploading cgi programs (FTP) that it *must* be done in ASCII mode. Is this necessarily true? If so, I think that was one detail omitted in the information from the program's creator.

I'm hoping with your explanation I can get back to fiddling with my install of it and see where I went wrong.




abbeyvet -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 19:12:08)

Yes, ascii mode it is.

Katherine

++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com

"Dogs have owners, cats have staff"
Meeeooow!



Bpete -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 19:46:51)

Hello again ... OK, good news and bad news. The good news is after downloading the FTP program and reading going through it's tutorials, I managed to get the files FTP's and chmod and etc.,. I set up a folder in the cgi-bin and named it "update". I finally even got the path correct and opened the setup page. So all that went ... ok. I added some content to be displayed.

The bad news: In the web I made a new page and changed the ext. to shtm. I copied and pasted the code as insturcted changing the path as follows:
<!-----Begin Included Content From Page Updater V4.0------>

<!--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/update/pu.cgi"-->

<!-----End Included Content From Page Updater V4.0----->

NOTHING HAPPENS... :(

A couple of things looked funny to me ... 1st the program made it's own foder in the cgi-bin folder and named it _xxx_cnf (xxx is subsitute for the letters)size it says 1024.

When going to FP and switching to folder view, that folder does not show up. Also in FP folder view there is a new folder (I didn't do it) called charityware_datafiles. No one has mentioned either of these things,so maybe it means something to you?

So I'm this far, and stuck again ...
:((
Bpete





Bpete -> RE: What Happend ? & Udate Page via Browser (12/8/2001 21:00:25)

WAIT ...!
Don't answer that last question ... it's working, it's working! Getting punchy I guess. I took a break and had a beer and oven pizza, came and went over all of it again for the umpteenth time. There it was right in my post, a missing "L." Duh ... change the file ext. to shtml, not shtm. FP makes it's files as .htm and I plain missed it. I wouldn't bet money on remembering exactly how I got here, but I'll do it again tomorrow and see if it's repeatable.

Katherine ... thank you so very much. Hope this thread will make it easy for everyone else that wants to try it.




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