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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 10:20:21
quote:
ORIGINAL: torobravo
More weird things:
I could actually open the site "LIVE" with EW in ftp.
Opening the main page displays the code with the original FP bot in the code and.... the include page feature works normally from within EW in creation mode but not when opening the page in a browser.
Can you 'recalculate hyperlink' or anything like what we used to do in FP?
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 10:32:34
EW doesn't allow to recalculate sites in live mode. Furthermore, I tried to replace the original FP include bot by a new one and... it made disappear almost everything !!
More I get used to it, less I can understand EW. This is worrying isn't it ?
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 10:42:35
quote:
ORIGINAL: torobravo
EW doesn't allow to recalculate sites in live mode. Furthermore, I tried to replace the original FP include bot by a new one and... it made disappear almost everything !!
I peeked at your testwebsite, looks terrible.
Edited: Ahhh..now looks better. And the footer shows the correct thing.
< Message edited by William Lee -- 10/5/2007 12:49:02 >
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coreybryant
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 10:45:40
Expression Web wants users to rely more on code to do things rather than the program do things for them. For years, developers complained that Frontpage created needless and bloated HTML code. But this code allowed anyone to get a website up and running without knowing any HTML, CSS, etc.
Expression Web though is different. It expects you to know some code and expects you to know how to insert that code properly. Gone are the Frontpage Page Inlcudes, now you have a choice of server side includes, ASP includes, PHP includes, .NET includes
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 10:53:29
quote:
ORIGINAL: coreybryant
Expression Web though is different. It expects you to know some code and expects you to know how to insert that code properly. Gone are the Frontpage Page Inlcudes, now you have a choice of server side includes, ASP includes, PHP includes, .NET includes
I use both. FP Include page works best in the visual designing environment ... ask torobravo, we know what it can do and why we just love it. It doesn't mean we are not using SSI or any other includes you mentioned.
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 10:57:31
All right, Coreybryant... but do you think the difference is huge between a user being able to insert an include page component from a menu and another user being able to type on his keyboard <!-- #include file="yourfolder/yourfile.asp"--> ?
Being able to use the include feature in WYSIWYG mode is really an interesting option and I am sad to understand that it's gone for ever in the new EW.
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coreybryant
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 13:11:36
Yes there is a difference. One you are using a GUI to insert a page. The other you are writing your own code. HTML scares some people, that's why they liked Frontpage. But now Expression We wants those users to maybe write some code, something that Frontpage never minded for
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 14:00:18
I don't mind to admit that I prefer a WYSIWYG environment and that I am unable to code eficiently. If you think that it is completely useless to have the include feature displayed in WYSIWYG, then I can only blame my poor understanding of web development.
With best wishes,
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coreybryant
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 16:06:51
It is difficult, I know. I use ASP includes all the time and sometimes need to publish the site to see it. One can hope that Microsoft will see that this is a feature that could be extended to Expression Web
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/5/2007 21:58:46
torobravo, so do you have to publish all the pages in order to have the modified content of an included page propagated sitewide?
stay focussed with me to help me understand better about EW and how differently the FP Included page component works in EW.
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/6/2007 3:43:13
quote:
ORIGINAL: William Lee
torobravo, so do you have to publish all the pages in order to have the modified content of an included page propagated sitewide?
stay focussed with me to help me understand better about EW and how differently the FP Included page component works in EW.
No problem, we'll keep in touch. Until now, I have no way around and the modified content doesn't propagate on the website with FP include content. However, I emailed WantToLearn as he developed a macro that makes some FP features available in EW, among which the include bot.
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 11:18:56
I found this page http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/expression-web-includes.html which gives an overview of the include feature in EW (not available in the basic program but you can reactivate it through a macro add-on, several of these are available for free).
"If you update your included content and do NOT have FPSE (FrontPage Server Extensions) installed, you will need to upload ALL changed pages. If you Publish to a server where FPSE are installed, only the changed included content page will publish."
This seems to be in contradiction with Tina Clarke's detailed explanation found at http://any-expression.com/expression-web/tutorials/insert-include-pages.htm, but unfortunately in my experience I could not make the modified included page propagate through the whole website without the FPSE.
We'll have to switch to asp include tags, I'm afraid.
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 11:28:43
Not very good news, isn't it?
I read from the Expressions team blog that they may bring the Include page back, so keep your finger crossed.
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 11:34:53
The problem is that I don't have much time... my host is going to remove the FPSE within a few weeks and it will be quite time-consuming to make the website up and running without them...
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 11:42:26
Thanks... We'll try to survive !
I'll be posting some new threads in the next days as I am encountering other problems in EW.
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 11:45:04
quote:
ORIGINAL: torobravo
Thanks... We'll try to survive !
I'll be posting some new threads in the next days as I am encountering other problems in EW.
So many problems? OK, I will learn along with you.
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tinaalice
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 13:24:00
You (Julien) (that the person with the problem here?) contacted me .... and left me to find the thread myself... thanks for that.
You don't say WHAT is in contridiction between Pat's tutorial and mine? I cannot see any!
FYI There are only two (free) macros available from third parties btw.
Using the work around by Cheryl Wise I find easier however.
MS have said they will be including the include in an easy format in some way in a upcoming version.
Includes DO work with or without fpse on the server. As i stated in the email to you ... there is a mvp (James Huggins) who has NEVER used FPSE in his life and has never had a problem with them.
First when asking for help it is best to include the url of the site where the problem is.
What is the link to the site?
If you don't want to give that out .. what is the link to a test url on the exact same plan on the exact same server?
How are you inserting includes? Are you using the one's that were in the previous web (talking about your orginal problem site).
Why are you using includes in a footer with a dwt? Unless the footer changes from page to page just use the dwt.
Yes when you use ftp and you have changed a include it will require you to upload all the pages the include is on..... this has always been so ... no difference now.
Yes you can in EW open the website live.. and naturally you cannot use any fpse methods like recalculating hyperlinks .. the reason you can do this on disk based webs on the hard drive is that your fp or ew prog carries a version of the fpse within it allowing certain features to work, some require the full monty.
Have you run the fpcleaner?
http://www.95isalive.com/fixes/fpclean.htm
have you recalculated hyperlinks on the harddrive web before publishing? Always do this anyway.
From reading through the thread it sounds like a bunch of deaf old ladies .. none of you are reading what the the other wrote... hence the SSI mistake and more.
From what little i saw in the thread the new 'test' web is using a lot of the old code.
I suggest you ask this question .... and giving the previous fp version you were using .... the fact your using ew now ... the actual url ... and any steps you have taken with link to this thread. outline both problems as one and two. Make a good subject line.
Before doing anything else I suggest you use my free setting up expression web ebook.
and folks.. don't blame the tools when 99 times out of a hundred its the nut behind the wheel at fault..... just cos you have not even begun to figure out why you are having problems does NOT mean includes do not work without fpse installed.... in fact your the first person I've heard about that is having this problem. That points to either something corrupt, user error or a host error.
If your interested in getting to the bottom of the problem.... try out some of the solutions above.
I'd rather continue this on the newsgroup than on Tom's forum as more people with indepth knowledge and time will be needed for this one.. I'm afraid I don't have the time right now. Cross refernce the posts.
Tina
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 14:29:01
Thank you Tina for your response. I apologize for having forgotten to include the link to the thread in my earlier personal email.
quote:
Yes when you use ftp and you have changed a include it will require you to upload all the pages the include is on..... this has always been so ... no difference now.
Well, this is exactly the point. If you don't have FPSE on your server, you're supposed to publish via ftp, aren't you ?
If so, I can't see the point in using an include feature if the changes you make on an included content don't propagate through the whole website. I must be missing something ?
English is not my native language so please forgive my errors and aproximate expression.
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/7/2007 21:48:41
Edited:
quote:
We'll have to switch to asp include tags, I'm afraid.
At the expense of WYSIWYG functionality.
< Message edited by William Lee -- 10/8/2007 7:31:38 >
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patg
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/8/2007 8:55:58
I have a number of sites I that are mine or that I am responsible for. Two of them have fpse installed the rest do not. I use pf/ew includes on all of my sites. The reason is that is easier for me to maintain the sites. I normally publish using fp/ew no matter which of the sites I am publishing to - wheher to an ftp address or http address. Some of the sites are fairly large. If I am publishing to an ftp site then I know I need to publish ALL of the pages the include is part of. When publishing to an http site, I know I only have to publish the changed include.
I do not work on my site live and do not recommend to others that they do so. I have heard to many horror stories of what can happen.
I also use SSI's on some sites where fpse are not installed - mostly genealogy sites on a free server. I prefer fp includes because I can actually SEE them on my computer while with using ssi's I can not.
There are many of us who use the include feature of fp/ew without fpse installed because it makes it easier to maintain our sites. We also use them knowing we need to publish all pages the includes are part of.
As far as I know using fp includes on a server without fpse installed have always required that you publish all changed pages. So you choose which kind of includes work best for you in your situation.
pat
< Message edited by patg -- 10/8/2007 9:01:35 >
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/8/2007 9:43:58
quote:
As far as I know using fp includes on a server without fpse installed have always required that you publish all changed pages. So you choose which kind of includes work best for you in your situation.
That's what was unclear to me and now it is perfectly clear. Thank you all for your help.
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/8/2007 12:24:22
Pat, thank you for your helpful comments.
quote:
ORIGINAL: torobravo
The problem is that I don't have much time... my host is going to remove the FPSE within a few weeks and it will be quite time-consuming to make the website up and running without them...
torobravo, I love working with the FP Include too much to really give it up just because FPSE will not be around soon.
I have thought out this idea, can you follow along and see if it is feasible.
It goes like this:
I will have one ASP script at the server. When I run this script, it will remove in ALL selected published pages anything between
<!--Webbot Bot="Include" U-Include="/include_page1.htm ..... startspan -->
and
<!--webbot bot="Include" .... endspan -->
Then in their place, response.write the SSI equivalent, eg
<!--#Include virtual="/include_page1.htm"-->
Looks like this script neededs also to strip away the the <html><head><body> tags leaving only the body content in the include_page1.htm
That is the work to be carried out at the server - by running ONE script.
Meantime I do my usual stuffs with my FP client - no change as to using the FP Include page.
Why I do this?
First, I can continue to SEE the included content in design environment, esp work involving intensive graphic layout which I cannot if using SSI.
Secondly, I do not want to upload ALL the files whenever I changed the content of one included page.
Thirdly, FPSE or FTP, I go on working as usual in my FP client.
Are you following my thoughts? Let me know yours.
I guess this idea only targets FP since it has the webbot code in the published/ftp-ed pages.
< Message edited by William Lee -- 10/8/2007 14:23:13 >
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/8/2007 13:52:54
quote:
ORIGINAL: Donkey
... then you can use server side includes and you'll never need to go through the pointlessness of changing every page that has an include on it again.
Yes like what Pat wrote below, I too use SSI.
quote:
ORIGINAL: patg
I also use SSI's on some sites...
I prefer fp includes because I can actually SEE them on my computer while with using ssi's I can not.
This 'seeing' is so important to me in graphics layout of the website design.
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/9/2007 5:08:10
William,
this would be great to have a way around the existing FP includes to make them work the way they did, even without FPSE. The fact that the included pages could spread in the including pages is crucial for me and I am seriously thinking about switching to server side includes for some of my current FP includes.
Your idea of asp script that would convert all include FP bots into SSI seems very interesting at the first glance. The problem is that I am unfortunately totally unable to write such a script and I have no idea of the problems it could eventually generate. If you have a good programer at hand...
BTW please note that the fp bot code is not removed by EW when published via ftp and if your script would work with FP it would then work for EW as well (the bot remains in the page code, the only thing is that included content can't be dinamically called when FPSE are not installed and includes content displays in "static mode". Therefore you have to publish all pages to have the changes propagate to all the pages including the modified content).
Please let us know if any solution shows up !
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