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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/9/2007 13:22:19
quote:
ORIGINAL: torobravo
Your idea of asp script that would convert all include FP bots into SSI seems very interesting at the first glance. The problem is that I am unfortunately totally unable to write such a script and I have no idea of the problems it could eventually generate. If you have a good programer at hand...
(Ignores the womble  )
torobravo amigo, this script shouldn't be too difficult for an intermediate ASP person. Using FileSystemObject in ASP, it can be accomplished without much agony.
Couple of questions:
1) Do you use nested includes, meaning a FP Include inside another FP include.
2) Do you still use FP, and if yes do you work live on the server? (Best not to)
3) Do you use FP include in the Head tag?
I am doing this just for kick's sake, one of those stuffs that the majority is not interested but the minority might( only 2 of us?)
Alternatively, I am considering working on a FP client macro that will show an .inc file in the Design pane. Its just the other way round. I learnt a lot from the Spooky Diet macro that Stephen Travis wrote,which he allowed me to introduce into OutFront.
So again, it is doable. Stay tuned!
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coreybryant
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/9/2007 15:56:32
quote:
ORIGINAL: tinaalice
From reading through the thread it sounds like a bunch of deaf old ladies .. none of you are reading what the the other wrote... hence the SSI mistake and more. That;'s why I only try to respond to the OP because of my memory problems.
Unfortunately when my question does not get answered, it just seems that more problems are created. I have two servers that never have had FPSE installed on them and I actually did Working with Frontpage Includes the other day but don't remember it.
I just did Frontpage Includes but I still prefer SSI over that.
If the OP would provide the source code, maybe we could go over it, but after another review, I could not find it. And I think I got this thread mixed up with another post on includes because I could have sworn the source code was provided.
I'll be the first to admit I might have made a mistake because my memory is failing unfortunately but I am trying my best to still help people before I have to be completely bed-ridden
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/9/2007 17:18:59
quote:
ORIGINAL: William Lee
quote:
1) Do you use nested includes, meaning a FP Include inside another FP include.
2) Do you still use FP, and if yes do you work live on the server? (Best not to)
3) Do you use FP include in the Head tag?
I don't understand why some people want to force everybody on earth to forget the way includes worked in Frontpage with fpse. Perhaps they think everybody should do everything like they do.
William Lee, keep up the good work ! Here are my responses to your questions:
1). No I don't use nested includes.
2). Despite the fact that I am still using FP on the production server where the FPSE are still activated, my goal is to get rid of it and switch definitely to EW which provides better support for other features like CSS, and code compliance. I am planning to develop the new FPSE-less website within EW from the extant website files. And no I never work live on the server (not that I have any idea on the bads of this practice but it has no interest for me).
3). No I don't use include in the head tag.
Let me know if you have any other question. I'd be really happy to help.
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/9/2007 17:29:57
quote:
ORIGINAL: coreybryant
quote:
I'll be the first to admit I might have made a mistake because my memory is failing unfortunately but I am trying my best to still help people before I have to be completely bed-ridden
Don't worry coreybryant, you are not alone with your memory problem: William Lee is as stubborn as a mule and I am a little short-sighted... we make the perfect team for a problem no one seems to care about except us (which is basically enough to keep going, isn't it?).
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/10/2007 7:11:24
quote:
ORIGINAL: Donkey
FP preview is no faster than having an Fx window open with the page in it. Then you see the real page not the FP slightly wrong page.
Preview Bad.
Browser Good.
No, no. It is not the Preview that matters so much. I don't use the Preview pane. For Preview, I go to File>Preview in Browser and select Firefox and screen resolutions.
Its the "Normal" design pane, the WYSIWYG where the FP Include page will show up. SSI simply won't show in there.
It is important/useful for me when I work with graphics layout, the ability to see ALL.
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caz
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/10/2007 9:07:51
quote:
ORIGINAL: William Lee
Its the "Normal" design pane, the WYSIWYG where the FP Include page will show up.
William if you use the Design View it is even more "off kilter" than any thing else. Many people drag and drop when designing there - have you ever looked at the resulting code? If you carry on like that, especially when using doctypes and css, you will be tearing your hair out because your pages won't work cross browser and are not easily read by screen readers.
(Apologies if you don't work like this, but it sounded as if you do.)
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/10/2007 11:51:52
quote:
ORIGINAL: Donkey
Personally I find working in WSIWG view too limiting. IMHO if you design in code view you learn more quickly.
I use "Normal" ( aka WYSIWYG) view for layout of sliced images in tables. For coding, esp ASP, I can't do it in the WYSIWYG. Its done in the HTML pane.
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/10/2007 13:10:23
quote:
ORIGINAL: caz
William if you use the Design View it is even more "off kilter" than any thing else. Many people drag and
drop when designing there - have you ever looked at the resulting code?
I did a research on the word "off kilter" just to make sure it is not what I think a Scotsman walking around with his kilt dropping off.
Yes I use Design view to drag and drop sliced images in table cells. I am a Table person.
How differently will the code be if I were to drag/drop images as opposed to handwritten?
quote:
If you carry on like that, especially when using doctypes and css, you will be tearing your hair out
because your pages won't work cross browser and are not easily read by screen readers.
Doctypes, css and screen reader, good point here. Thanks for alerting me to this. I am a Table person but I will keep this in mind in the macro I am working on though I don't see it will adversely affect any of these.
quote:
(Apologies if you don't work like this, but it sounded as if you do.)
No apologies needed I work like this and there is a good reason. I come from a background of VB6 programming. I develop desktop apps and automate Office tasks. For some of the things I did, I used Visual Studio 6.0 as the Rapid Applications Development(RAD) tool. I work in what they call the IDE, Integrated Development Environment. There, I simply drag-and-stick-it-there. Things that got dragged are buttons, images, grids etc. The habits simply got carried over. It is not necessary bad though I respect your opinion on it.
Donkey is not for the Preview, you are not for the Design(Normal), so we are left only with the HTML pane.
I do agree HTML view is the best place where we tweaked things to satisfaction. But FP provides those 3 views for good purposes, its up to the user to make full use of them.
Incidentally, does EW have these panes as well?
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/11/2007 3:30:07
quote:
ORIGINAL: William Lee
I have thought out this idea, can you follow along and see if it is feasible.
It goes like this:
I will have one ASP script at the server. When I run this script, it will remove in ALL selected published pages anything between
<!--Webbot Bot="Include" U-Include="/include_page1.htm ..... startspan -->
and
<!--webbot bot="Include" .... endspan -->
Then in their place, response.write the SSI equivalent, eg
<!--#Include virtual="include_page1.htm"-->
Looks like this script neededs also to strip away the the <html><head><body> tags leaving only the body content in the include_page1.htm
That is the work to be carried out at the server - by running ONE script.
I threw this out of the window. Since I do reverse publish, it'll screw things up.
Instead, concentrating on a FP macro that will show the content of SSI in the "Normal" view.
So one needs only to upload the changed include page.
I'll call it SSI Viewer for the time being.
OK, talk is cheap.
If you have something that can help make my task easier to produce a better macro or you are a FP Include user and interested to know the outcome of this SSI Viewer , feel free to mail me.
Edit: My email is as below:
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< Message edited by William Lee -- 10/12/2007 5:24:08 >
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/11/2007 4:33:10
quote:
ORIGINAL: Donkey
quote:
So one needs only to upload the changed include page. With server side includes that is all you have to do anyway?
Yessir! FP Page Include is good for me as long as FPSE is installed AND clients are using FP to maintain the website.
I need to move to SSI but if my clients do not see the included contents in Normal view, chances are they'll delete the includes by accident when they edit/update the calling pages.
I need a way to SEE the content of the SSI in the "Normal" pane of FP.
< Message edited by William Lee -- 10/13/2007 0:14:17 >
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torobravo
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/12/2007 4:28:22
I'm still there folks... and reading with much interest what you experts of the 21st century have to say...
CSS is very powerful and one of the interesting points in switching from Frontpage to Expression Web is to have the oportunity to learn more about it and use it more extensively. So all right, this is the good direction to go but please let the web be a free space and let the older websites make the transition at their convenience. After all, what makes a website successful is certainly not the expert's judgement but its visitors.
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William Lee
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RE: include content and charset problem - 10/13/2007 14:52:41
Here is some progress I made.
I have come up with a Proof of Concept for the SSI Viewer.
This is a workable thing, and you can use it right away.I have included some sample files here and you can download to test.
The Proof of Concept is as follows:
For each calling page, there are 2 sets of include code, both calling the same include as below:
<!--#include file="ssi.shtml"-->
<!--webbot bot="Include" U-Include="ssi.shtml" TAG="BODY" -->
ssi.shtml is really just an ordinary SSI file. Since there is no preventing anyone from inserting it as a FP Include, FP will still display the contents of this SSI in the Normal view during design time, even without the HTML and BODY tags. Like it so far?
The SSI code will be the only set executing as usual when parsed by the server. At the server, the FP Include will fail because checksum = 0 for the bot code due to the missing html and body tags. There is no repeating.
So the webbot functions only to show the content of ssi.shtml in the Normal view of FP.
The drawbacks of this simple solution are:
- both sets of include will fail when you preview locally in the browser,
- the dysfunctional webbot code is an eyesore especially if you have many includes and nested includes(unless your pages are .asp and server supports ASP)
- it is not elegant.
These can be thoroughly addressed by the macro I am currently working on. Meantime, this serves as a proof of concept for the SSI Viewer, the objectives of which are:
1) to enable FP users to see SSI file in the Normal view just as they would see a FP Include
2) removes the need to upload all the calling pages when changes are done to the includes. Simply uploading the changed include pages will suffice.
Having the best of SSI and WYSIWYG in Normal view.
Basically, to quote one email that I received, " the idea of SSI Viewer is definitely the most attractive as it *fully* re-establishes the way FP Includes used to work with FPSE installed."
Thats how it'll work.
Edit: I have downloaded a trial version of EW and this method is working in EW too.
< Message edited by William Lee -- 10/18/2007 6:26:06 >
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