include content and charset problem (Full Version)

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torobravo -> include content and charset problem (9/26/2007 20:03:04)

Hello,
I am currently switching to Expression Web a very large website (several hundreds of pages) which was entirely designed with Frontpage. I am trying to apply the layout as a DWT and use the include content feature which was used on almost every page of the initial website but I am probably mising something : the include content doesn't seem to work the way it did... For example, there is a footer included on every page. With Frontpage the modifications made to the included content would spread over the whole website. With Expression it doesn't seem to be the case so I can't understand the point in using the include feature? And if I save the include content into a DWT, this would mean republishing every single page of the web every time I change something into the footer?
Also, while the website displays perfectly when published with FP, it seems to have something like a charset problem when published with EW as many weird characters appear in the text (euro symbol displays as "€" for example).
God, I am already missing FP very much!
Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated...



Tailslide -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/27/2007 2:42:21)

I can't help you with the other issues as I don't use either FP or EW but with the charset you could try changing it to UTF-8 which is the standard recommendation these days as it copes with pretty much any special character. Hopefully that might help that problem.



coreybryant -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/27/2007 9:16:11)

You might consider included content. Since the files would be parsed on the server when called, you would only need to change / publish one page



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/27/2007 11:00:04)

Thank you, coreybriant, but the point is that this is exactly what I intended to do... but unfortunately, this works with FP but not with EW.... the modified included content actually does not modify the master pages.

Any idea about what the problem might come from ?

Thanks



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/27/2007 11:01:39)

Regarding the charset problem, what I don't understand is why the page displays correctly with FP and not when published with EW?



caz -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/27/2007 15:18:45)

See if this thread is any use to you http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/m-360673/key-expressions%252Ccharset/tm.htm#360824



coreybryant -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/27/2007 15:53:53)

Included content (server side) should not work in Frontpage unless it is being parsed on a server. Frontpage offers some page includes but that is ran via Frontpage



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/29/2007 9:44:50)

I've been using included content in Frontpage for years, so I know exactly how it works. But my problem is that publishing the same website with EW, unfortunately the included content does not parse anymore on the published pages.regarding the charset problem, it is not what other posts describe as the BOM problem. In my case, alla ccentuated characters do not display correctly.




Tailslide -> RE: include content and charset problem (9/29/2007 9:48:08)

Did you try changing to UTF-8?



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/1/2007 3:53:15)

Okay, I still haven't solved the problem but have some more details about it: the charset problem and the include content problem seem to be just the same.
In fact I noticed that the charset problem only occurs with the include content pages. The included pages are asp pages and they don't display correctly (all accentuated characters display as a code). Furthermore, when modifying the included content, it doesn't change automatically into every page as it did previously with Frontpage. Please remember that this website was working perfectly with FP and I just intended to publish it with EW and without the FP server extensions.
I'd be really grateful if someone could help me !



coreybryant -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/1/2007 7:29:29)

Odd characters  on browser output using file 'include' should give you an idea



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/1/2007 7:55:33)

No, this the BOM problem and has nothing to do with my issue. EW supports inclusion of asp pages without problem, right ?



Tailslide -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/1/2007 8:50:46)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailslide

Did you try changing to UTF-8?




coreybryant -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/1/2007 15:37:27)

Supports - not really. It won't show the include via the program.



jurgen -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/1/2007 19:52:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: coreybryant

Supports - not really. It won't show the include via the program.


Corey, what you basically say is that no fancy scripts anymore with EW. Not like FP what did all the coding for you. What you say is you better know your coding otherwise it will go haywire..... If you don't you better keep FP and never change..... [:D]

quote:

EW supports inclusion of asp pages without problem, right ?


Notepad does it, too.....

torobravo, you should listen to Tailslide:
quote:

Did you try changing to UTF-8?


[;)]



William Lee -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/2/2007 0:32:44)

quote:

ORIGINAL: coreybryant

You might consider included content. Since the files would be parsed on the server when called, you would only need to change / publish one page


Firstly I want to thank corey for your help in my post in General Web Development regarding also FP Included Page component.

However, I have this feeling Corey may not have worked with FP Include Page component, from this post of his. It is as what Corey described in his link, but even better!

I have used both, SSI and FP Include Page component, and the latter is my delight.

"FP included content is viewable at the WYSIWYG level. This is unlike other include methods which can only be viewed at the browser level after the server executes the code. This makes for a visual development environment that is as close to the finished product as can be. "

This link on FP Include Page component is by one of the most revered member in our midst.

I am curious for a fix to torobravo's problem.

torobravo, do you have a URL for this?



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/4/2007 17:01:23)

Ok, folks, sorry for getting back so late to you.

Thank you Tailslide, your UTF-8 suggestion seems to be right. With this charset, the weird characters do not show anymore in the included content proceeding from database (why did it work with FPSE and windows-1252 charset is a mistery for me).

Regarding the inclusion in itself, it remains without working properly. Or more exactly, the included files seem to work (an included file containing a script request to a database will work ok) but the included pages do not display as they did in Frontpage: if you include a footer.htm on every page, publish the website, modify the footer page and publish it alone, the changes will not spread over all the other pages. I can't see the point of the inclusion feature if the content of one page can not be displayed on another one.

Any idea ? Many thanks to all for your help.



jurgen -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/4/2007 17:11:25)

You most probably are looking at your cached page. Try to reload or refresh and the changes should show up.



coreybryant -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/4/2007 17:16:26)


quote:

ORIGINAL: William Lee

I have used both, SSI and FP Include Page component, and the latter is my delight.

Very glad to have helped. Keep in mind that if you use SSI, you only use the code you want to include. With the FP Include Page component, it actually requires a complete HTML page (one with the head / body elements)


quote:

ORIGINAL: torobravo
Any idea ? Many thanks to all for your help.
Can you take a look at any of my sites? I use ASP includes extensively on my sites and I do not have this problem. I use 
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
        "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

<head>
<title>Title Removed</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" />


I thought you had posted some links but I cannot find them now.

Care to post the source code to both and let me test it on my server?



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/4/2007 17:31:12)

I have set 2 examples with the same set of files. The website was created with Frontpage and the inclusion feature is used 6 times in that page: the header, footer and 3 side boxes are included while the central content is pulled from a sql databse with an included-file containing a request script.

Here is the result on a server without FPSE. The footer containing the date was modified and published on the server but to no avail: it doesn't show on the actual page. This page is set with the charset UTF-8.
http://testwebsite.bookhosting.com/catala/cat-espanol.asp

The same page on another server with the FPSE enabled shows the modified included-content which only needed the footer page to be published on the server.
http://espejo.bookhosting.com/catala/cat-espanol.asp

Both pages use the include Frontpage component but it is supposed to work without FPSE, or did I miss something ?



coreybryant -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/4/2007 19:12:41)

If you are using the Frontpage Include component, that's something else. For some reason, I thought you were using server side includes - sorry about that, I guess that's another question somewhere else.

Frontpage Includes work without FPSE. Frontpage Includes are managed by Frontpage (locally). But if you are using ASP, why not use ASP includes?



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 3:27:08)

I use the FP include component because:

1). it allows to have the WYSIWYG control of your inclusions on a page, which other asp include don't.

2). The website is already built with this feature and it is supposed to work without FPSE (many macros offer to integrate this functionality into Expression Web).




William Lee -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 6:50:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: torobravo

I have set 2 examples with the same set of files. The website was created with Frontpage and the inclusion feature is used 6 times in that page: the header, footer and 3 side boxes are included while the central content is pulled from a sql databse with an included-file containing a request script.

Here is the result on a server without FPSE. The footer containing the date was modified and published on the server but to no avail: it doesn't show on the actual page. This page is set with the charset UTF-8.
http://testwebsite.bookhosting.com/catala/cat-espanol.asp


Out of the 6 times, only the footer is not working according to what you expect?


Edit:

Mights as well change the charset for the footer too. 

 
<html>

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 12.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<title>Pied de Page</title><meta name="Microsoft Theme" content="5050-red 0010, default">
</head>

<body bgcolor="#990000" text="#000000" link="#B43A2D" vlink="#B43A2D" alink="#B43A2D"><!--mstheme--><font face="Verdana"><!--mstheme--></font><table border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%">
  <tr>
    <td width="100%"><!--mstheme--><font face="Verdana"><p align="center" dir="ltr"><font size="1">
    <font color="#800000">
    <a href="../livres/default.asp" style="text-decoration: none">
    ©</a> </font>1999-2007 Llibreria Antiquària Comellas - last updated 04/X/2007<br>
    Rambla de Catalunya, 15 - 2n 2a — 08007 Barcelona — Spain</font><!--mstheme--></font></td>
  </tr>
</table><!--mstheme--><font face="Verdana"><!--mstheme--></font></body>

</html>



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 8:28:35)

No, William, unfortunately it doesn't work better with UTF-8.

Regarding the other included-content areas of the page, none works as expected (i.e. spreading the modifications over the website by publishing only the modified page) except those using the asp include-file tag (not the FP include component which is, again, supposed to work as well with EW).

Thank you for your suggestions



William Lee -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 8:41:53)


I checked the page source and there is nothing to indicate a include. For example, in SSI it will be <!--include...> in FP there will be webbot code <!--Webbot bot="Include...>

So, how would those pages expected to work with the include? My guess is that EW does it all first in the local copy before they are actually published.

Therefore, it might be reasonable to expect that you will have to publish all the pages that the include page is being referenced.

Sounds ridiculous.



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 9:47:41)

I'm not sure you should be able to see the include tags in the actual page source. In my code the FP bot code is present.

If you're right, it works exactly like a DWT and the interest in using this include feature in EW remains to be proved.

I am really disappointed as this was one of the great features of FP. I'll have to switch to asp include tags without WYSIWYG support, which is really too bad.

Thank you indeed for your help





William Lee -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 9:52:48)


quote:

ORIGINAL: torobravo

I'm not sure you should be able to see the include tags in the actual page source. In my code the FP bot code is present.


Are you able to open the pages 'LIVE' at the server and inspect the page source. I suspect the published pages will not have any references to any include files.


quote:



I am really disappointed as this was one of the great features of FP. I'll have to switch to asp include tags without WYSIWYG support, which is really too bad.



Me too.



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 10:02:40)

Unfortunately, EW doesn't let me explore the subfolders when opening the site in ftp. To tell the truth, the built-in ftp client doesn't seem too convincing... Slow and sisconnecting too often when publishing large websites.

I'll try to check what you say... That would mean that EW removes by itself the FP components? Weird isn't it ?



William Lee -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 10:07:51)

quote:

ORIGINAL: torobravo

Unfortunately, EW doesn't let me explore the subfolders when opening the site in ftp.


Will it be possible to publish to a web locally?

quote:



I'll try to check what you say... That would mean that EW removes by itself the FP components? Weird isn't it ?


Yes, it is weird why some useful user-functionality are not retained in EW, taking over from FP.

I had feared such thing will happen when the Include component is not supported by default.

Maybe WantToLearn can tell us more.



torobravo -> RE: include content and charset problem (10/5/2007 10:16:26)

More weird things:

I could actually open the site "LIVE" with EW in ftp.

Opening the main page displays the code with the original FP bot in the code and.... the include page feature works normally from within EW in creation mode but not when opening the page in a browser.



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