FP Include page and CSS (Full Version)

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William Lee -> FP Include page and CSS (10/10/2007 13:26:22)

CSS advocates, do you use FP Include page components?
For navigation, for content?

How else do you use it?



caz -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/10/2007 13:34:34)

I have used them for both purposes; you can put them wherever you want in a page, it's just a case of getting them in the right div and checking that there is no extra code slipped in by FP and that the path is right.
Why complicate a perfectly simple solution?

Other includes such as SSI or PHP includes work the same way - but then it does help to work with a local testing server - I use IIS with a PHP modification.



coreybryant -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/10/2007 14:36:43)

I use ASP includes for my navigation - usually lists and then use CSS to help layout the lists in a particular way.

Listamatic has some great examples.



treetopsranch -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/10/2007 23:14:30)

Yes, I do use use FP Include page components for navigation and for content? So easy to do and works super.



Tailslide -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 2:30:38)

I use PHP includes or where I can't use those SSIs.



rdouglass -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 9:33:09)

Use includes but not FP Includes. Use regular server-side includes like as mentioned. IMO FP Includes are not true includes at all 'cause if you change the included page, all the 'including' pages do not update automatically. They are 'design time' includes and not 'runtime' includes.



Tailslide -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 11:11:51)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rdouglass
IMO FP Includes are not true includes at all 'cause if you change the included page, all the 'including' pages do not update automatically.



Seriously? What exactly is the point of the things then?



caz -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 12:47:41)

The point is that the pages are updated when they are viewed. Simple as that.



rdouglass -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 13:51:33)

quote:

The point is that the pages are updated when they are viewed. Simple as that.


Do they? I was under the impression they only update at design time. Wasn't there a post about someone saying they had to open all the pages and save them?

Anyways, arent' FP Extensions going away? IF they are, then there's the kicker:

If there server-side, don't use 'em 'cause FP extensions are going bye-bye.

If there design-time, don't you have to 'touch' each page to make 'em work properly?

Just stick with SSI's and you'll be all set. Change 1 page and it *will* be site-wide.[;)]

</$>02>



caz -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 14:54:15)

FP Includes don't need FPSE.

If you change the content of an already established FP Include and don't change the file name or the path then you don't have to republish/upload all the pages that call that include.

This thread is supposed to be about FP Includes and CSS.



rdouglass -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 15:36:32)

quote:

This thread is supposed to be about FP Includes and CSS.
[&o]



coreybryant -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 15:51:04)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rdouglass
f there server-side, don't use 'em 'cause FP extensions are going bye-bye.

If there design-time, don't you have to 'touch' each page to make 'em work properly?
Frontpage Page includes are do not require Frontpage Server Extensions. As a matter of fact, you do not even need to publish the Included page - but you have to re-publish all the other pages. Sort of backwards if you ask me.

But Frontpage Page Includes allow the users to see the "complete" page so that you do not need a server. The video tutorial on Frontpage Includes shows this as well.



rdouglass -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 17:37:10)

quote:

but you have to re-publish all the other pages


My point exactly.

quote:

allow the users to see the "complete" page so that you do not need a server


If you don't have some kind of server that you can do development on, whether it be a box in your basement or a free host somewhere, you might be in the wrong profession. [;)] Either that or you're on the beach. [:D] [:D]

Don't get me wrong. It can be done. You can also build a house without powertools if you really want to. Will someone pay you to do it?

(I better be quiet now.....[;)])



jurgen -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/11/2007 20:52:26)

You do not need a server or another hosting place. Everything can be done with your own html editor or what ever you are using. Just a little bit of explanation how I build the site pages, maybe that will help to understand a little bit more. First I guess is the "template" where you set up all your main areas like header, content and footer. Possibly a left or right navigation. In my case I do use the navigation horizontaly in the header.
Next step is to decide what will never or rarely change and should show on every page in the site. Obviously this will be the header and the footer (and possibly the left or right column). These portions of the the template page will be cut and paste in a new file. Which will be the includes later. Once this parts of the code is out I will end up with just the the content page and code to use for all the other pages. I only have to include the header and footer files (code) in the apropriate places and all will show up just fine. Point is I just have to deal with my content and don't need to worry about the rest.

Below is just an example what I am working with to change or create new pages. 

<body>

<!--#include virtual="/ssi/header2.html" -->

<div id="leftcolumn"> 
<img src="images/kittyl.jpg" alt="Wedding Dresses by KittyChen couture" width="130" height="350" border="0" title="Wedding Dresses by KittyChen couture"></div>

<div id="rightcolumn"> 
<img src="images/kittyr.jpg" alt="Wedding Dresses by KittyChen couture" width="200" height="350" border="0" title="Wedding Dresses by KittyChen couture"></div>

<div id="maincontent">

<h1>KittyChen Couture</h1>
<p> Kitty´s designs are realized in the highest quality fabrics such as sheer silks, luxurious satins, soft organzas, angel tulle, as well as intricate hand-beaded laces, hand-stitched embroidery. All of this is accented with diamantes and swarovski crystal features.</p>

<p> Kitty´s refined and unique styling is evident in the sculpted bodices, glamorous necklines, drop waistlines, floating skirt with classic bustles and ruffles accenting train to complete a fantasy look.</p>

<p>Visit the designer´s website: <a href="http://www.kittychencouture.com/" title="KittyChen Couture" target="_blank">KittyChen Couture</a></p> 
</div>

<!--#include virtual="/ssi/footer2.html" -->

</body>


And my apologies.... while writing this I did realize that this wouldn't work to good with WYSIWYG, and design view. Meaning, that you better understand what the code is doing. Than again, you always could throw in the code in a simple html page and check how it looks like. Since the thread is also about CSS you better throw in your style sheet as well.... [:D]

Again, you don't need a server, it helps, but you don't need to. The beauty with SSI is that you can maintaine a site sooooo much easier and quicker. And believe me, I learned it the hard way.....

[image]local://upfiles/20595/30B5F8355B0344018C9B140AB8113D84.gif[/image]



William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 8:12:19)


quote:

ORIGINAL: caz

FP Includes don't need FPSE.


Agree with above, disagree with below

quote:


If you change the content of an already established FP Include and don't change the file name or the path then you don't have to republish/upload all the pages that call that include.






William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 8:29:11)


quote:

ORIGINAL: coreybryant


As a matter of fact, you do not even need to publish the Included page



Honestly, this is new to me.



caz -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 11:55:26)

You are making me think that I am losing my marbles, so I just did a test on my local server. On the include for a footer - footer.html - I changed the word "Contact" to what you now see in the image. I saved then published the include and then checked all the pages that call that include. The change is there without me doing anything . I can't explain it but it works for me on local and remote servers. I can only think that once the page with the amended include is called in the browser it stays in the cache, so further calls for it happen so quickly that we don't notice the changes. As far as I am aware though you do need to upload/publish the include file.

However so that we stop going round in circles here have a look at these from the tutorials on this site.

using FP without extensions
http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/getting_started/extension_alternatives.htm

Introduction to includes
http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/getting_started/includes1.htm



[image]local://upfiles/3479/046C4C7B842145B8B1662222DDE95447.jpg[/image]



William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 12:18:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caz

I saved then published the include and then checked all the pages that call that include. The change is there without me doing anything . I can't explain it but it works for me on local and remote servers. I can only think that once the page with the amended include is called in the browser it stays in the cache, so further calls for it happen so quickly that we don't notice the changes.


In this local server and remote server of yours, you probably have FPSE installed, in which case you do not need to publish all pages that call the include. Publishing the FP Include page is sufficient.

However, in your preceding post, you gave the idea that even without FPSE one does not need to publish all pages after a change was done to the include. If this is not what you are saying, then I am sorry if I misinterpreted you.

You will agree with me that in the absence of FPSE and using FTP for uploading of files, changing the include will require uploading all pages that call the include?


Thanks for the tutorial link. Very helpful.


quote:


As far as I am aware though you do need to upload/publish the include file.

I concur :)

What is that silly bugger doing in the attached image?[:D]



coreybryant -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 12:32:43)


quote:

ORIGINAL: William Lee

Honestly, this is new to me.
It was to me as well but it makes sense because Frontpage Page Includes are managed locally. I did a video cast to prove this as well. It just goes to show that Frontpage did actually do a bit more than we thought.

And you can still actually use the Frontpage Page Include webbot in Expression Web - the coding does work and the functionality is there, but I still prefer server side includes



caz -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 14:25:12)

quote:

ou will agree with me that in the absence of FPSE and using FTP for uploading of files, changing the include will require uploading all pages that call the include?

Yes William, I just tried that on a site without FPSE and using FTP. You will also be relieved to know that the site from where I used the image has been returned to normal.

Corey, probably it has to do with recalculating hyperlinks, which I tend to do automatically on sites with FPSE.



coreybryant -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 15:07:15)


quote:

ORIGINAL: caz

Corey, probably it has to do with recalculating hyperlinks, which I tend to do automatically on sites with FPSE.
I have not done that just yet - only the Refresh button. That is what seemed to push the Included content to the other pages without needing to publish the Included Page.



caz -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 15:46:59)

Are you working on the server as opposed to remote?



coreybryant -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 17:04:29)

No I hardly ever work on the server. I work remote. Mainly use Expression Web though and FTP (stopped using FPSE when we bought new servers about a year ago).



William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/12/2007 23:45:17)

I would advise anyone to maintain the same copy of files on the server and on their harddisk. Some day, you'll accidentally delete some files on your harddisk ( it happens to me, to my clients, it can happen to you!) and your only copies of them are on your webserver, you want to be very sure they are one and same.

Edit: I rather make sure the updated include page is uploaded IMHO.

Nonetheless, its an interesting find, corey[:)] I never knew it. I'll have a go at testing it later.

Thanks.



William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/13/2007 0:19:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caz



You will also be relieved to know that the site from where I used the image has been returned to normal.





Hee [sm=kiss.gif]



William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/13/2007 1:49:42)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailslide

I use PHP includes or where I can't use those SSIs.


Tail, under what circumstances will you not be able to use SSIs? I am keen to know your answer as I am working on a project regarding SSI.

I have understood just about what I need to know how CSS folks use the FP include in FP.

Your input is important even though you are not using FP.



William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/18/2007 8:31:34)

Havn't seen Tail lately.

Talk to me, Tail.



Tailslide -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/22/2007 3:54:43)

Hello... Been away on holiday - just got back more tired than before I left. [&o]

Anyway.

My personal default is to use PHP includes because that's what I know well.

I only use SSIs when I can't use PHP includes for some reason (maybe not allowed on the server or some other restriction).

Nothing against SSIs in particular - I'm just more used to using PHP includes.



William Lee -> RE: FP Include page and CSS (10/23/2007 1:13:04)

Thanks for the reply! [:)]



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