A question on code! (Full Version)

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jedidiah -> A question on code! (1/4/2008 16:35:02)



Hey everyone, I am going to do all that I am going to do for now as far as my code in FP 2003, please note so far accompishes only on my site http://www.jedidiahsarts.com on the Interest page and the Ambers Weddingpage, if you check out the code, then look at the other scource code for the other pages you can see exactly what I have eliminated. I was wonder about that code between the fonts ><b><i> ....how much of this is necessary and what can I eliminate? I am still trying to delete what I dont need. It can be confusing, just tryint to clean it up, I open other pages on the net to see what they have that I might learn.

Thank you

Sherri.... I will be back




jaybee -> RE: A question on code! (1/4/2008 18:55:06)

Sherri, I suggest you learn some HTML. There are tutorials on www.w3schools.com

It's pointless us telling you what to remove on a specific page as the instant you start pressing buttons in FrontPage a load more will appear. You need to understand yourself what the code is and what it's doing.




Tailslide -> RE: A question on code! (1/5/2008 2:55:42)

Also HTML Dog and CSS Basics.




jedidiah -> RE: A question on code! (1/5/2008 16:27:57)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailslide

Also HTML Dog and CSS Basics.



Ok, what is not understood here is...THIS IS NOT CSS! my site was built totally on blank pages so I do not see how the CSS anything applies even ss...example below on the WC3 validator.

# Error Line 53, Column 64: required attribute "ALT" not specified.

…er="0" src="new_jed_pic.JPG" width="420" height="307"></td>



The attribute given above is required for an element that you've used, but you have omitted it. For instance, in most HTML and XHTML document types the "type" attribute is required on the "script" element and the "alt" attribute is required for the "img" element.

Typical values for type are type="text/css" for <style> and type="text/javascript" for <script>.


There is no CSS, none, zippo, so how is it this would even apply? I have eliminated much code in the intertest page as much as possible in split code to make sure things dont dispear, was not sure of the validity of the first submitted note, anyhow,. I dont see how CSS is applied to anything or how to correct that since I am not using CSS...FP does offer the ability to make pages from blank pages, however they do not offer the securety of what comes after that.

Thanks
Sherri




Tailslide -> RE: A question on code! (1/5/2008 16:30:41)

No but if you remove the unecessary coding that you were talking about in your first post you may need to replace it via styling in a stylesheet and therefore you'd need to learn CSS.

HTML dog and W3C schools have excellent tutorials on HTML too - if you really want your site to be top notch then you'd need to learn more about your code and why you've got errors to enable you to correct them.





jedidiah -> RE: A question on code! (1/5/2008 17:22:25)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailslide

No but if you remove the unecessary coding that you were talking about in your first post you may need to replace it via styling in a stylesheet and therefore you'd need to learn CSS.

HTML dog and W3C schools have excellent tutorials on HTML too - if you really want your site to be top notch then you'd need to learn more about your code and why you've got errors to enable you to correct them.




Well, I dont know if a stylesheet is the equivalency of the blank page or have anything to do with the blank page it self, but if I were to use stylesheet and or CSS, then of coures this would be the case. I suppose if I can recreate the style sheet to the exact page per page I have then it would benefit me, but I dont see that as a possibility at this time. The CSS offered seem to be the same and not very interesting but yes if it indeed applies to a business then CSS seems to be what to use.

Ok Thanks on this Tailside.




jurgen -> RE: A question on code! (1/5/2008 20:14:03)

Hun, you have no clue what you are talking about. Take the advise from Jaybee and Tailslide and learn html and how everything works together. It is much more complex than just deleting code. [8D]




jaybee -> RE: A question on code! (1/5/2008 23:08:10)

quote:

# Error Line 53, Column 64: required attribute "ALT" not specified.

That is nothing to do with CSS. That error is HTML.

You really do need to go and learn some of the basics. As Jurgen says, you don't understand what you're doing and we're just going round in circles.




jedidiah -> RE: A question on code! (1/6/2008 9:23:35)


Ok, hey I never said that the HTML code I am using in FP was CSS?? never, and I know this already. I said I am building from scratch, blank page, didnt know if it was titled in a category of such but no I never eluded to anything as far as saying CSS was HTML. I also have NVU and have been working in it little by little to learn code, and have visited the URLs here recommended to learn it. I am having trouble with it in NVU, but I also have bluefish. What I need is more time to dedicate to learning it which is why the original purchase was made with FP. What must be taken into consideration is the fact when I purchased FP originally and saw it performance in dictating code to the pages as they were built how discouraging that was. I was like, your kidding me, this is code? not understanding at the time not really even as of recent that this is not proper at all. I am a newbie, I dont know this...even though its not an easy process to learn, but I was abhored to find out HTML wasnt what FP was doing, ya that was a mind blower. I get the point here which is why I downloaded the NVU and Bluefish to see where I can start. Thanks for your advice, its excellent and I do consider the input always.

Thank you
Sherri





Tailslide -> RE: A question on code! (1/6/2008 10:31:38)

Nvu isn't much better than FP and I don't have a clue what Bluefish is.

If you really want to learn the code then you don't need to buy anything - just download a proper HTML editor like HTML kit or PSPad or even just old-fashioned Notepad. You could probably even just use FrontPage in it's Code View mode.

HTML isn't CSS - they're totally different things.

HTML governs the structure of the page (e.g. Headings, Paragraphs, Lists, Links, Images). CSS governs how all those things look on the actual page and controls such things as fonts and colours.




d a v e -> RE: A question on code! (1/6/2008 11:51:21)

bluefish http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/




Tailslide -> RE: A question on code! (1/6/2008 11:54:41)


quote:

ORIGINAL: d a v e

bluefish http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/


Yeah that's the sort of thing you want. An HTML editor.




jaybee -> RE: A question on code! (1/6/2008 13:07:33)

quote:

Bluefish runs on most (maybe all?) POSIX compatible operating systems including Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS-X, OpenBSD, Solaris and Tru64.


Not Windows.




jedidiah -> RE: A question on code! (1/6/2008 19:03:39)


I have ubuntu 710 Gutsy Gibbon on one machine and Windows pro on a Optiplex 210L, although My FP is on my husbands computer, two are mine one for him, he-he... but ya thats where the FP is for now and bluefish on Ubuntu. NVU download for XP. I like this idea of bluefish open office off to check that out, thank you.

Sherri

Sherri




jedidiah -> RE: A question on code! (1/6/2008 19:06:54)

Okay, correction I have Buefish 1.07, this is on my Ubuntu, I thought this was a different editor but ya I already have this one.

Thanks
Sherri




womble -> RE: A question on code! (1/7/2008 14:46:31)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jedidiah
What must be taken into consideration is the fact when I purchased FP originally and saw it performance in dictating code to the pages as they were built how discouraging that was. I was like, your kidding me, this is code? not understanding at the time not really even as of recent that this is not proper at all. I am a newbie, I dont know this...even though its not an easy process to learn, but I was abhored to find out HTML wasnt what FP was doing, ya that was a mind blower.


I'm not quite sure what planet you're living on, but on this one Frontpage does produce HTML, albeit bad HTML - infact every WYSIWYG editor on the planet produces HTML - HTML is what the web's built on. HTML's what web pages are. You can't make a web page without using HTML.

CSS is entirely different, but you clearly don't understand that, and until you do Bluefish, swordfish, or tuna fish ain't gonna help you any because if you're using a text editor it doesn't do it all for you, and you have to write the code yourself, which means you need an understanding of what it is, how it does it, and how to write it.

It's at this point that reading the information given in those links really does help because until you understand the basics of HTML there's nothing we can do to help you.




jedidiah -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 13:41:41)


quote:

ORIGINAL: womble


quote:

ORIGINAL: jedidiah
What must be taken into consideration is the fact when I purchased FP originally and saw it performance in dictating code to the pages as they were built how discouraging that was. I was like, your kidding me, this is code? not understanding at the time not really even as of recent that this is not proper at all. I am a newbie, I dont know this...even though its not an easy process to learn, but I was abhored to find out HTML wasnt what FP was doing, ya that was a mind blower.


I'm not quite sure what planet you're living on, but on this one Frontpage does produce HTML, albeit bad HTML - infact every WYSIWYG editor on the planet produces HTML - HTML is what the web's built on. HTML's what web pages are. You can't make a web page without using HTML.

CSS is entirely different, but you clearly don't understand that, and until you do Bluefish, swordfish, or tuna fish ain't gonna help you any because if you're using a text editor it doesn't do it all for you, and you have to write the code yourself, which means you need an understanding of what it is, how it does it, and how to write it.

It's at this point that reading the information given in those links really does help because until you understand the basics of HTML there's nothing we can do to help you.


quote:

I'm not quite sure what planet you're living on, but on this one Frontpage does produce HTML, albeit bad HTML - infact every WYSIWYG editor on the planet produces HTML - HTML is what the web's built on. HTML's what web pages are. You can't make a web page without using HTML.


Well, really HTML is what the web is built on? what was your first clue, I dont know if its because of the fact that some are more geeky and less in tune with poeple or what, because you obvioulsy dont understand anything I have said.

When I purchased FP << how hard is that? and began creating pages, my thoughts were, goodness,,,this is HTML, in reference to all of the extra added code so forth and so on, no I did not know any of if but though gracious this is alot to learn, thinking that at the time was HTML. ...as time went on I grew to understand no...this is improper HTML and it how FP chooses to delegate its own HTML. I have blue fish and NVU in hopes to eventually learn code to use blue fish and any other editor, so as to build pages in HTML, not a repeat performance of pages first as then HTML being created. So ya am I off the beat...of course...from a different planet? I dont think you hurling insults at me is helpful at this time. I am trying to learn, that is why I am in here, now I know where to go...what to do...and where I am going wrong... thanks to those who have been patient and dignified through helping me with my ignorance...admittedly, unlike yourself thank you. Now whos on another planet.

Sherri




caz -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 14:02:09)

Sherri, I have watched this thread waiting for the light to dawn on you that you do have to learn HTML and CSS in order to do what you want. FP can be used - but carefully - to produce good web sites if you understand how to do it. There are no short cuts and Womble just said the same.

If you look at this forum you will see that Womble helps a lot of people out when they get stuck and like all of us patience can run out when people will just not read the answers carefully. All the people who have tried to help you do so freely when they could charge for their professional help and time.

I suggest that you stop wasting time with other editors and OS and just start learning the basics.




dpf -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 18:56:10)

delightful to know that nothing has changed in my long absence...............




womble -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 18:59:59)

Yay Dan! Nice to see you around again! [sm=boogie.gif]




dpf -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 19:18:16)

quote:

Nice to see you around again!


how did you what shape I am in??




caz -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 19:24:24)

I expect that she just guessed that you hadn't slimmed down since we last saw you. [;)]




dpf -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 19:28:12)

round IS a shape, dreamgirl




caz -> RE: A question on code! (1/8/2008 19:32:23)

I should know dear boy, I live with one of them thar shapes...
I am glad that you are back again...and again so that you can explain all this school playground stuff that you call caucuses. (Perhaps in another thread. [:D])




womble -> RE: A question on code! (1/9/2008 14:59:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpf

how did you what shape I am in??


Just psychic dear boy - one of the many talents I've developed in your absence under the instruction of dear Golfer, who has slimmed down incidentally...

...oh, and I gained a chainsaw too. You think it suits me? [:D]




mtfm -> RE: A question on code! (1/9/2008 16:19:00)

OK, I know I am a latecomer to this thread, but....

Sherri what they are trying to say is that your question is simply not answerable via an online forum. To slim down a page and remove Frontpage's useless code is definitely a good thing, and an admirable goal, but the determination of what may be cut and what cannot be cut is one which can only be made with a good knowledge of the HTML language.

Then, to take things one step further HTML as a language is always evolving, and it has a number of attributes which are deprecated (no longer supposed to be used in a well-made page). Those deprecated items have no equivalent replacement available in a native html format, their replacement is in CSS.

Therefore, to make a good, standards-compliant page nowadays takes both CSS and HTML as a package deal. Which is why the subject of CSS came up.

<edit> as a side note, Frontpage supports CSS more-or-less, but was not designed with CSS in mind. Neither were most other graphical web design programs. In design mode you will get very little CSS, and none of what you get will be properly done. Unfortunately, to really learn CSS you just need to dive into the code.




d a v e -> RE: A question on code! (1/9/2008 16:24:52)

"In design mode you will get very little CSS, and none of what you get will be properly done." i think you'd be surprised with dreamweaver then ;)




mtfm -> RE: A question on code! (1/9/2008 17:55:04)

I have no doubt it's better than the nauseating Frontpage code. But it will still be done inline though, right?

I mean, it doesn't have the ability to adapt an external stylesheet, does it?

(If so color me impressed!)




jedidiah -> RE: A question on code! (1/9/2008 18:59:53)


.............?




Tailslide -> RE: A question on code! (1/10/2008 2:31:37)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mtfm

I have no doubt it's better than the nauseating Frontpage code. But it will still be done inline though, right?

I mean, it doesn't have the ability to adapt an external stylesheet, does it?

(If so color me impressed!)



I'm no fan of DW either but I believe that it does use external stylesheets rather than inline (probably can specify inline if required).




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