.NET v PHP (Full Version)

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GolfMad -> .NET v PHP (2/24/2008 4:35:46)

Is PHP; easier to work with, quicker to load in browsers and future proof compared to Microsoft controlled ASP.NET?

Been going round in circles, this aspx .net stuff seems quite slow when linked to SQL2005 databases. I have tried it with 2 hosts and some pages sometimes take ages to appear. I find it so difficult to understand/work with from a designers point of view(mostly using the code of others), also it costs me £150 extra to host a site. I cant see any pages with it on in EWD either to edit. Where is the benefit for me please!

This php coding has caught my interest, so much open source stuff, and Microsoft cant pull the plug on it or outdate it like ASP. I feel a dinasour if using classic ASP for a new site, my competitors love to point out it is an out dated coding method. I really like the phpbb bulletin board (was considering Webwiz but -ASP). My new resller hosting package gives me free MySQL 4 or 5 databases (50 of them!) and I can set them up from my Helm control panel at a breeze.

Looking now for a secure web folder (on part of a new site) area/user reg. php package to buy (any ideas please).

I tried to understand DotNeNuke and just got lost! - even the demo I registered for didnt work and i couldnt even find out where to get back into that page on the site. Also tried a .NET package from Insite Creations. It did everthing according to the 'label on the tin' but customising it even slightly was a nightmare and too much depth in channels and users for me to work with and how the hell my clients would cope with that is another matter!

Well this leads me to think should I be moving to PHP stuff, not to hand code but to use free or pay for the vast amount of scripts out there.

What do people think of this please?

Is all I have to do then, is to change the extension from htm to php on new sites being developed (hosts have V4 and 5 of PHP on server 2003 IIS6) and it will work?

Again I guess then I wont be able to see pages in EWD but do you know how I could see them or preview them please before publishing?

Regards
GolfMad



Tailslide -> RE: .NET v PHP (2/24/2008 6:40:27)

I'm not a PHP expert and I've never used ASP or .NET so I'm probably not very qualified to give my opinion... but hey, that's never stopped me in the past! Also I suppose it's going to be hard to get a completely unbiased opinion because I think that most people, even if they can use both, will tend to use one or other.

I use PHP because there's so much OS stuff out there such as WordPress or all the various excellent fora such as SMF or PunBB or ecommerce packages such as Zen or Cubecart - there's just so much "stuff" to play with! I've also managed to write my own small PHP/MySQL driven sites with things such as private areas and easily updateable pages for clients to edit when they don't require a full CMS.

PHP has had a lot of bad press because it's so easy/cheap to get into and you end up with lots of people writing insecure stuff so the whole thing tends to get tarnished with the same brush.

Also there's the view that "corporate" means .NET while amateurs use PHP - I think that while there's a grain of truth in that (big corps getting tied into the whole MS thing) I don't think that this view should be a barrier to anyone using any tool to do a job.

Personally I tend to use Linux servers so instead of having to change the extensions I can just trick the server into serving what should be a .php page as a .html as normal via the .htaccess file.

I used WAMP to set up my own test server on my desktop (it installs apache, MySQL and PHP in one go - believe me, much better than doing this singly) although I often just use my test website instead. XXAMP is also popular.



jaybee -> RE: .NET v PHP (2/24/2008 7:36:21)

PHP every time. I find it easier to use than ASP. There's more OS stuff out there to plug in to it and the kicker from my point of view is that PHP runs on Unix and Windows whereas ASP and .Net is Windows only.

Admittedly not all Windows hosts allow PHP but a lot do so it increases your options.

Plus, as you've found, Unix hosting tends to be a lot cheaper than Windows.



caz -> RE: .NET v PHP (2/24/2008 8:30:32)

I use Windows servers for many of my sites and use IIS locally to test asp pages but have also moved to using php and to test them locally I have installed php onto IIS and it works very well. It's not a simple push button operation but it's not rocket science either and I didn't want to be running 2 servers on my machine. After a lot of digging I found these excellent instructions on how to install PHP on IIS.

All my windows sites also allow php which I use for adding Mike Cherim's contact form.



rdouglass -> RE: .NET v PHP (2/24/2008 13:21:26)

Well as most frequent OutFronters know, I'm pretty much an MS person. I can get around in PHP fairly well (it's very much like JS as far as I can see) but my personal opinion is that I can get stuff done about 30-40% quicker using MS stuff and I don't use WYSIWYG.

There are many ways to make ASP.NET and SQL server faster and it's like most stuff; inefficient code makes for inefficient applications. If I have 1 big downer about MS stuff is they have too many WYSIWYG things that just bloat the code too much.

But then if people didn't need those WYSIWYGs, MS would never sell a development product now, would they? [;)] You can make .NET and SQL server a whole lot faster by developing classes and compiling application code and things like that.

I'm sure if I had 'grown up' on the PHP side of the tracks, I'd be singing a different tune but to me, it has *always* boiled down to just getting the job done. And I seem to find I get it done a lot faster with MS stuff. And I stay just as busy as I want focusing on those technologies.

And lastly, regardless of what you might read or hear, I've experienced generally smooth transitions thru the MS technology changes as it relates to the web. All technology changes (even PHP) so we will never avoid that and hope to stay current. But moving thru the web stuff from NT 4.0 with Netscape Enterprise, then MS's own IIS, then ASP, and .NET, I have never felt left out in the cold nor have I *ever* been in a dead end technology. There has *always* been a way to migrate existing stuff to the most current offering.

I'm not saying you'll be going down a dead end with PHP, I'm just saying you *won't* be going down that dead end following MS's path.

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rdouglass -> RE: .NET v PHP (2/24/2008 13:25:22)

quote:

whereas ASP and .Net is Windows only.


Untrue. There has been Apache/Chilisoft for quite some time and now there's Mono:

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

But that is a very widely held misconception that it is Windows only. Things like the FSO and stuff may not be accesible but the technologies do exist. Apache/Chilisoft is *extremely* popular and I'm confident that if not Mono, something like it will be quite popular soon on 'Nix.



GolfMad -> RE: .NET v PHP (2/25/2008 8:04:00)

Thank you to everyone who contributed, it has placed me firmly believing that PHP is the way to go. I am grateful for the links to setting up PHP on IIS and have done this ok.

Here is an interseting link that says Microsoft will include PHP in EWD in the next release:
http://visitmix.com/blogs/TheSignal/The-Signal-Episode-1-PHP-Expression-Web-and-MIX-Crew/



On another note, having never had to view local versions of sites, could someone please just advise:

Do I have to create clients webs as subfolders of C:\inetpub\wwwroot\ so that I can view the php page, or can I still develop them as subfolders of my customers folders.

What do I type in IE to see them, is it: http://localhost/newcustomersweb

Regards
Golfmad



caz -> RE: .NET v PHP (2/25/2008 8:30:41)

Yes you do have to create clients' sites as sub directories of wwwroot and to see them use your browser (It doesn't have to be IE, I use Firefox) as you described. Have you found the IIS documentation yet? That should give you the quick site set up instructions.

If you are using FP and extensions you can then publish to localhost and the site will be set up for you as it would first time on your host. Otherwise it is a copy and paste operation, but works just as well. I use it as a staging server just to test certain things so it is a copy of the clients sites, but others will work differently - you just have to decide which is going to be the 'fair' copy. [:D]

As you are leaning towards PHP have a look at this forum IIS and PHP but be aware that it covers all flavours of IIS.



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