My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (Full Version)

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michaelea -> My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 14:24:06)

My Site suddenly disappeared from Google overnight.

northcoastcomputerservices dot com

I had been getting Google first/second page placements on searches for "hp coupons", "dell coupons" and the like. I had, the day before, made a couple of minor changes to some H2's - like from "Specials and Savings" to "Computer Deals" - but nothing radical.

Suddenly at about 8:00pm last night I disappeared totally and have not even gotten 1 hit today - usually 75 to 100 hits a day.

Can anyone suggest what might have happened please?

Thank you.



jaybee -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 15:28:33)

Well this is what Google has to say about it:



Keyword: hp coupons URL Pattern: www.northcoastcomputerservices.com

Search top 100 sites

Querying Google. Please be patient...

Sorry, Your site was not within the ranks in Google™'s results.

It's possible that the site may not be properly indexed by googlebot™. Make sure
that your web site is googlefriendly and feel free to post a request at the GoogleRankings.com SEO Center
Page Rank 4
Number of Backlinks: 12 Check Google™

Time: 71.28 seconds
Querying MSN. Please be patient...

Position: 45 HP Coupons, Coupon Codes, & HP Pavilion Computers.
HP Coupons and Coupon Codes for HP Computers, Printers, Pavilion Notebooks, Laserjets and All-in-One Printers.

Time: 1.02 seconds
Querying Yahoo. Please be patient...

Sorry, Your site was not within the ranks in Yahoo™'s results (keyword:hp coupons)

Time: 2.90 seconds
Querying Ask. Please be patient...

Sorry, Your site was not within the first 200 results in Ask™'s results (keyword:hp coupons)
Time: 60.37 seconds



Mojo -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 15:34:02)

You're still in Google - just do a search on your domain name and you will find your site. Your site is also ranking for thing you would expect such as: North Coast Computer Services.

I doubt anything you did yesterday would have such a dramatic impact just a few hours later. Especially since all you did were minor things.

How long were you ranking for the terms that have now disappeared?
Have you added any new sections or services in the last 4 months?
Do you have any automated sections (especially reciprocal linking programs)?
Where are you linking besides all the affiliate links?

Your HP Coupon landing page took several seconds to load and then it was just a few sentences of content and a dump of 30 outgoing affiliate links. Not too much to hang your hat on. From a quick glance, it looks like your site is ranking where it should for that phrase - I found you ranked around 240.

Personally, I am always wary of promoting third party SEO services. You have affiliate links to a couple of different companies which, in my paranoid mind, raises a flag. I'm not at all saying you are being penalized for those links, but I do believe it raises a flag. With enough flags, a search engine may take a close look at your site and find things they just don't like.

That said, sometimes, Google turns a dial and sites will disappear for a short period of time and then slide back in to the usual position. It happens to me all the time. I would not make any dramatic changes for now.



Mojo -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 15:54:47)

.



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 16:36:54)

Mojo - thanks for your comments.

To respond to your Q's - for my northcoastcomputerservices dot com site:

I was ranking on page 1 of google for about a month with the "30 outgoing data feed" affiliate links. Before that - for a couple of months - I was ranking on page two with 1/2 a page of manually typed in HP links and about 10 or a dozen "data feed" links.

In the last 4 months I have added new sections, menus, layout etc - hence the difference between the look of the home page vs. , for example, the look of the "Dell Coupons" link page. I have been redesigning my site and it's half the new site and 1/2 the old site right now.

My automated sections are mostly datafeeds from HP, Circuit city, Egghead and a few others. My Services pages and Dell Pages (as the Dell Coupons above) are manually entered.

Do you mean where are my outbound links going except for affiliate pages? or, where are my site links (inbound) going (e.g. contact page)? My outbound links are to hp, circuit city, dell, apple, tigerdirect, toshiba, sony etc.. My inbound links are to Network services, support pages, contact us, w32 virus removal, and also to my own hp, dell, toshiba, apple pages. - before someone hopefully clicks off those pages and onto the apple iPod pages or wherever.

Also, the last time I added a new .php page to my site I mistakenly put the wrong date format in my sitemap.xml file - that the Googlebot then read - this was less than a week ago. Google Webmaster Stats noted the error and I corrected that today and resubmitted the sitemap file with the correct date format for that one page.

Thanks for the questions and that's the best answers I can give for now. HTH and Hope it makes sense.

Thanks for asking Mojo. I appreciate that.



Mojo -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 16:58:17)

I just found some duplicate sites that you're running. These will cause you problems:

northcoastcomputerservices.com - IP: 208.109.66.150
northcoastcomputer.com - IP: 64.202.189.170 >> DUPLICATE

northcoastcomputer.com - IP: 64.202.189.170 >> This site FRAMES northcoastcomputerservices.com >> DUPLICATE
northcoastcomputers.com - IP: 64.202.189.170 >> another FRAME of northcoastcomputerservices.com >> DUPLICATE


northcoastcomputerservices.net - IP: 208.109.66.150 >> A heavy affiliate site and Adsense site. It also links to Northcoastcomputers.net

northcoastcomputer.net - NOT a duplicate, but it's obviously used as an affiliate site and belongs to you.


These sites WILL cause a problem when/if the search engines get wise to the duplicate content problems. You are even interlinking which makes it look like you are trying to game the search engines. These issues can raise the flags that I mentioned in my above post.

Google has been begging webmasters to report spammy sites for some time. If you have a competitive webmaster working on similar sites they will certainly try have you penalized.

I found this in about 10 minutes. If you ever had enough flags for Google to look at you, using their tools on their own index - What else would they find?

"They’re tryin to make me go to rehab - I said no, No, NO"

EDIT: Another flag is that you are ranking for multiple sites of the same content. I am not saying that you will get noticed by Google any time soon, but there is a chance it will happen sometime. It happed to me several years ago and I lost ALL sites that were in that network. The main site came back after I removed all dupe content and even then it took over 6 months. Course, I was doing it on purpose....



Mojo -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 17:06:47)

Heavy affiliate sites are sometimes fair game for Google.

My question about your outgoing links was directed to what sites are you linking to as far as any link trades are going? I was wondering if you were involved in any link projects. I did see the affiliate links.

Right now, I think your biggest concern should be the dupe content issue.



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 17:32:57)

Is Domain forwarding frowned on?

So, am I better to dump all of my other sites, roll/add the content into just the one nccs.com site above and just forward the dumped domain names to nccs.com?

That would be better huh?

Thanks.

- I was just developing my web programming skills and ideas on t'other sites..... Yes I was, Yes I was :)



jaybee -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/19/2008 19:45:55)

quote:

- I was just developing my web programming skills and ideas on t'other sites..... Yes I was, Yes I was :)



Oooooh you likkle liar [;)]



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/20/2008 0:52:32)

Nope, No link trades or anything like that but.... I do digg my own pages and happen to "stumble" across a few of my sites' pages from time to time....

- why do I begin to feel like I'm at confessional here!?!?



Mojo -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/22/2008 14:08:00)

quote:

Is Domain forwarding frowned on?


The search engines get confused by it all the time, but IMO, your biggest problem is that you have multiple duplicate sites. Duplicate sites are frowned upon. You may go for a long time with no problem, but someday you may wake up and all your sites will be gone. It happened to me and many others. That said, if it is part of your business plan to have multiple, duplicate sites to rank for the same terms and drive traffic - I am cool with that. You will need to have a second set of domains with back links ready to go so that when/if your network goes down you can plug in your backup.



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/22/2008 16:21:44)

Nope, It's not part of my plan to have multiple dup. sites and, have just begun to realize that I get more sleep and eat time if I only try to manage 1 or 2 sites.

What to do with the other sites? Like northcoastcomputer dot net and northcoastcomputer dot com etc..? What's the "Google Firiendly" way to keep the domain Names and have them forward to my 1 main - and only - site? Should I be doing a search for "the right way to 301 redirect" or something like that?

I'm assuming that "permanently" forwarding is OK for me to do and that I won't get penalised for it?

Thanks.



womble -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/23/2008 8:35:22)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo
"They’re tryin to make me go to rehab - I said no, No, NO"


[sm=laughing4.gif]

IMHO, the only reason for having multiple domain names and variations on domain names is a) to get all the TLDs of your domain name so your competitors don't, b) to get common mis-spellings of your domain name, and c) to get variations on your main domain which people might try to guess if they don't know your exact URL. There's probably a couple more I've forgotten about, but they'd be the main ones.

Identical sites with duplicate content will get you hammered by the search engines, and as Mojo says, it might not happen today, or tomorrow, but someday you'll wake up and all your sites will be gone.

There's no need for permanently forwarding a site - if you use a 301 redirect no-one's going to see the first site anyhow because they'll be automatically forwarded to your main site. All you need is 1 main site and park the other domains onto it - no need for any additional hosting or maintenance of additional sites.

I have sites where I've grabbed all the TLDs and I simply point the domains at my .co.uk site. I also had a site that used to be a separate site with a forum on it, but when I decided to rationalise the hosting and domains I was shelling out for, I moved the forum onto the main site, integrated the content from the other site into it, and now just point the old domain at the new one so I don't lose anyone who may have had the old site bookmarked etc. That's only a personal site, but it works fine on my main two sites too.

The only sites I have that have anything like duplicate content are a couple on the same subject, but with content that's different between the two sites, and a lot of it's unique to one site only. For the main search terms both sites are currently right up near the top of the first page of the search results, and have been for the last six months.



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/23/2008 16:05:17)


quote:

ORIGINAL: womble

There's no need for permanently forwarding a site - if you use a 301 redirect no-one's going to see the first site anyhow because they'll be automatically forwarded to your main site. All you need is 1 main site and park the other domains onto it - no need for any additional hosting or maintenance of additional sites.

I have sites where I've grabbed all the TLDs and I simply point the domains at my .co.uk site. I also had a site that used to be a separate site with a forum on it, but when I decided to rationalise the hosting and domains I was shelling out for, I moved the forum onto the main site, integrated the content from the other site into it, and now just point the old domain at the new one so I don't lose anyone who may have had the old site bookmarked etc. That's only a personal site, but it works fine on my main two sites too.



Thanks for your response here womble. I'm sorry, I'm still a bit confused between when you say ... there's no need for permanently forwarding a site.... and then you say, ....I simply point the domains at my .co.uk site.....

What's the difference between "forwarding" a site and "simply pointing" a site?

Would you suggest/recommend that I go to my purchased Domain names - that I don't want my competitors to get - and just "forward" them to the site that I am putting all my content on (i.e. my main site).

Thanks everyone for all your valuable insight and feedback.



womble -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/24/2008 7:53:21)

quote:


Would you suggest/recommend that I go to my purchased Domain names - that I don't want my competitors to get - and just "forward" them to the site that I am putting all my content on (i.e. my main site).


Yep, that's what I'd do.

Sorry I didn't make that clear. My understanding, from what you'd said, was that you'd got two (two, for the sake of argument) sites - i.e. two full blown sites with hosting and a physical site on each site, and that what you were proposing was to put a redirect on one of those sites to send visitors to the other site? I think maybe I got confused between "forwarding" and "redirecting" too.

In my case, take a couple of sites I have. Site #1 I use a .co.uk domain, and it's that domain my hosting is linked with, but, I also own the .com, .net, and .org TLDs for the domain name. In that case I simply asked my host to park the .com, .net, and .org domains onto my hosting (actually, my hosts are pretty good and had already done that for me when I bought the hosting and the domains. The actual domain I use is www.site#1.co.uk, but now even if someone enters www.site#1.com, www.site#1.net, or www.site#1.org, what'll show in their address bar is the content they get is www.site#1.co.uk - there's no content at all attached to the .com, .net, and .org domains - they just point to the .co.uk hosting.

On another site I have, let's call it Site #2, again I have the TLD variations for the domain name. I also have a mis-spelling of the domain name, and all of those are parked onto the hosting for site #2 by my hosts (though I can set new parking up in my cPanel as well). On that site though I also have another domain, that used to be a separate site - I'll call that site #3. About a year ago I decided to merge the two sites, and the content from site #3 got largely put onto site #2. The two domains are totally different, but I don't want to lose any traffic I might get from site #3, either because it's listed in a directory somewhere or if someone bookmarked the old site. Site #3 is no longer in existence - there's no hosting there, nothing, just the domain name, and the content from what used to be site #3 is now on site #2. With the domain for that site it's with a different domain registrar, and I have access to the control panel for that domain (I could have transferred the domain to where my hosting is and simply got them to park it, but at the time it seemed easier to leave it where it was with it's current registrar). In that instance, all I did was log into my control panel for the domain, and where the set-up information for the domain is, for the nameservers to use, I simply entered the IP addresses of the namservers of the hosting for site #2, so, even if someone types www.site#3.com in the address bar of their browser, where they end up is www.site#2.com.

That's five domains all pointing to just one hosting account. I have all the variations of the domain names so any competitors can't get them, but I only have the cost, and the hassle of maintaining one hosting account and one site.

That make it any clearer, or have I just confused it even more? [:D]

I'm not sure what the SEO implications are of parking domains, but I would think it'd be a much more preferable alternative to having sites with duplicate content.



Mojo -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/24/2008 12:32:29)

Most registrar redirects are 302 which have caused problems with SE's. The generally agreed upon SEO approach is to create a second site (one page will do) and direct the extra domains to that location. From that location, use a 301 (permanent) redirect to your main site.

Now, that said, it's not what I would do in your situation. Since you already have these other sites indexed - I would go to the secondary sites and quickly alter and change content so that you wouldn't have any more dupes. A 20% change on page should be enough to avoid a duplicate flag. To be safe you could go to 30%. Don't change the page names - just the content. Done right, you could end up with several 'legit' sites all driving their own slice of traffic.



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/24/2008 12:59:15)

First off, let me say that this is really rewarding for me to get such - obviously professional - input and feedback from you. I know you probably have better things to do with your day and also probably charge your clients for the type of advice you are sharing here. Thank You indeed.

That said, I have, as the saying goes, just 62 more "quick questions" :)

I'm not convinced that I got penalized for duplicate content. That's not to say that I didn't but, until I check for sure later on tonight, I believe the only duplicate content would be some of the affiliate computer wordings for "stuff" that I attempt to sell on behalf of my publishers.

Would it make sense that I got penalised more for "cross linking". i.e I own, host and publish 5 or 6 different sites and have 3 or 4 links, on 3 or 4 of the sites that I own and publish, pointing back to my main site that I'd prefer people to "frequent".

Or, did I just saturate too much with affiliate links rather than - what google perceives as - informative content?

For example, one or three of my publishers RSS/.php data feeds could be displaying the same content on 2 of my sites.

I also don't get how some sites pages like this - http://www.momsview.com/dell.shtml - can get on the first page of google for "dell computer coupons" and I get nixed overnight for a page that clearly has some thought and work put into it like - http://www.northcoastcomputerservices.com/dell-coupons.htm

Also, because I have so many buttons and graphics am I getting penalized for "excessive keyword stuffing" in my alt and title tags? It's not that I intentionally keyword stuff but, after 30 pictures and buttons and also 20 text entries for "dell coupon and savings" items - how do you not get accused of keyword stuffing? Should I only fill in 4 or 5 alt tags and title and leave the rest blank?

Anyways, sorry to ramble and ask 28 questions in 1 but these are the questions that enquiring minds ask! My point is, I guess, that I hear it when you say that "duplicate content" should be avoided but I don't think I have duplicated my content overly - I will have to check tho'.

My questions on alt and title tags are still confusing me tho'. And, even tho' affiliate marketing may be frowned on some people do want to buy computers and some sites make a "huge" living off selling by seo for the word "coupons".

I'm just pissed I got nuked and others' with less work into their sites didn't!!! Anyways I do know this'll all make me better in the long run - won't it? :)

Thank You....




jaybee -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/24/2008 13:35:09)

quote:

I have, as the saying goes, just 62 more "quick questions" :)
\\[sm=rofl6.gif]



Mojo -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 0:20:13)

I don't think you have received a dup penalty. Like I mentioned above - you're still indexed by Google... all of your sites. :)

You mentioned many possibilities as to what could have happened. I don't intend to offend you, but much of your site has a spam-like feel to it. The high concentration of affiliate links are usually a good indicator of low quality. Certainly, Google can detect all those links.

quote:

I also don't get how some sites pages like this - http://www.momsview.com/dell.shtml - can get on the first page of google for "dell computer coupons"


That site has over 1700 inbound links with very little cross linking. That is why they can rank well. You can still rank pages for terms that are not even on the page with enough back links. It is hard work getting solid back links and is still the most critical aspect of ranking well in competitive industries.

If there are things you think you may have gone a little overboard on - change them. It is very easy for the SE's to detect excessive alt and title tag stuffing.



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 2:18:11)

1700 back links - My Gawd... Who was that Mom doing! How on earth do you get 1700 back links promoting a dell coupon site/page?

I can understand 1700 back links for a unique product but, for an affiliate coupon page how on earth can that be possible? It must be 1700 linking back to various pages on the momsview site huh?

Also I thought that Messers Google and Co. had just got "tuffer" with too many back links pointing at ya - if the back links weren't from similar types of "content pages"? which begs the question why would another "computer selling site" link to a competitors dell coupon site? Or, if it's not a computer sellers site linking back to momsview then I thought Google didn't like it if you weren't closely related industry/verbiage wise?

Clearly I know very little and am beginning to think I should stay away from websites and stick to network support!

<--- not a happy camper!




jurgen -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 2:49:02)

In my mind... that turns out to be a "black hat" tutorial....

redirecting - redirects, 301. 302 or whatever .....

Just go on and tell all how the "bad" guys are operating...... It's just another example how it should not be done and complain that they are dropped.... (shaking head)....



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 3:03:28)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jurgen
In my mind... that turns out to be a "black hat" tutorial....
redirecting - redirects, 301. 302 or whatever .....


jurgen, I'm sorry I'm not quite understanding what you are saying to me here.

Are you saying that forwarding a few domain names to 1 hosted domain site is not - ethical - or a good idea even?

How should one go about forwarding a few domain names to a hosted site?

thank You.



womble -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 6:22:10)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jurgen

In my mind... that turns out to be a "black hat" tutorial....

redirecting - redirects, 301. 302 or whatever .....

Just go on and tell all how the "bad" guys are operating...... It's just another example how it should not be done and complain that they are dropped.... (shaking head)....


I'm certainly no fan of "black hat" SEO, far from it, but forwarding domains to a hosted site, domains that are TLD variations on your main domain, or close to your domain I feel is a valid strategy. I'm certainly not advocating cyber-squatting, but if you have a domain and there's another domain available that's close to your main one that are available, which it seems that michaelea with his duplicate sites has done, it makes sound business sense to grab them to make sure customers end up on your site rather than on your competitor's.

Obviously duplicate content isn't the way to go, and it sounds like some of the things michaelea's done aren't best practice, SEO wise, but I'd agree that obtaining the other TLDs for the domain and variations on it's a good strategy, and not what I'd consider "black hat", and I doubt most web designers would either.

Take a current site I've got in development. The domain I ideally want is taken, and is a well established site, but there's a variation on that domain that if you accidentally mis-type that in your address bar takes you to a porn site (as I discovered when I was checking out what was available - it was accidental, honest! [:D]) - I'm sure not what the site's owner's wanted! My second choice domain is available, and I'm intending getting the other TLDs for it and a couple of close relations to make sure a) that no-one else gets them and people don't think they're on my site if they guess the wrong TLD or any other "dubious" sites.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo

Most registrar redirects are 302 which have caused problems with SE's. The generally agreed upon SEO approach is to create a second site (one page will do) and direct the extra domains to that location. From that location, use a 301 (permanent) redirect to your main site.


I'm interested in why you say that though Mojo. Surely creating a second site's going to cost you more in hosting? I guess SE's don't like 302 (temporary?), so it'd pay to check with the registrar what type of redirect they use?



d a v e -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 7:27:09)

"Surely creating a second site's going to cost you more in hosting? " [womble] not if you had it as an addon domain



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 11:01:42)

I read somewhere to put the 301 - permanent - redirect into the .htaccess file was the way to do it - rather than dicking around with various and sundry web hosts' control panels. But maybe that was just for individual page redirects rather than entire websites...... I read so much and remember so few details about where I read it or why to do it...

I like mojo's comment about using 301's and 302's but a, I'm not sure why I like it or why it makes sense and b, I'm afraid to ask more questions here as I'm sure my incessant question asking limit has been reached!

surely the cost of hosting for the 302 above is not a issue? My host charges me about $10 a month for 10 sites. Sure, there are the usual issues with shared hosting and script paths working - or not - in the 9 site sub-folders - but for the 301 and 302 concept that mojo mentioned it would be a no-brainer. Or, am I just one of the wealthier ones that has "no idea how the other half lives" and, in addition, has $5 extra to spare on 9 more hosted spaces?

questions, questions, questions,..... :/



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 13:15:36)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo

I don't intend to offend you, but much of your site has a spam-like feel to it. The high concentration of affiliate links are usually a good indicator of low quality. Certainly, Google can detect all those links.


Absolutely no offense taken. On the contrary, thanks for the constructive - and delicately put - feedback. Also, just because there are an abundance of "coupon and savings" affiliate sites out there making hits and lotsa do-re-mi doesn't mean that I know how to play that game well - yet!

Also, just because Google feels that affiliate sites are "not quality" there are plenty of folx that would like to by "stuff" from the web and the wolves in sheep's clothing (symantec, mcafee, microsoft et al.) do their utmost to block competitors web site sales pages. For example, how were the unrequited software programs looking on that new PC?!?!?! - Hmmmm . As someone recently said... the web ain't no place for small folks ... or, was it me that just said that!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mojo

If there are things you think you may have gone a little overboard on - change them. It is very easy for the SE's to detect excessive alt and title tag stuffing.


Re: alt tags and title tags

So, would I be correct then in assuming that in putting a title tag and an alt tag onto every img on a webpage that one must be careful not to repeat - too much - the same or similar verbiage (providing of course one wants to climb up the Google ladder)?

What happens, for example, if you want to sell your hand crafted cuckoo clocks and you have 10 cuckoo clock pictures on your page in addition to 10 "buy now" img buttons for those same clocks. I'm assuming that you have to avoid saying both - title="buy this cuckoo clock now" and also alt="buy this cuckoo clock now" - for all 20 img's?

I guess decreasing the amount of title tags would be a good start huh?

I use Axandra's IBP as my SEO software (I'll spare y'all the affiliate link :/ ) and in spite of it's excellence, nowhere does it analyze the quality or quantity of title tags on a page (except, of course, for the page title itself). Does anyone use img title tags for helping their Google page rankings? Clearly I use them to hinder my page ranking - what a unique concept!!

All comments and feedback are muchly appreciated - thank you.

<---- alrighty then. those are my "quick questions" for today :/



womble -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 15:09:53)

quote:

ORIGINAL: d a v e

"Surely creating a second site's going to cost you more in hosting? " [womble] not if you had it as an addon domain


[img]http://ecanus.net/smileys/duh.gif[/img] Duh! Why didn't I think of that? (actually probably because my main host doesn't (or didn't - not sure if it's changed) let you use addon domains). I know another I use has recently started doing so.

quote:


So, would I be correct then in assuming that in putting a title tag and an alt tag onto every img on a webpage that one must be careful not to repeat - too much - the same or similar verbiage (providing of course one wants to climb up the Google ladder)?

What happens, for example, if you want to sell your hand crafted cuckoo clocks and you have 10 cuckoo clock pictures on your page in addition to 10 "buy now" img buttons for those same clocks. I'm assuming that you have to avoid saying both - title="buy this cuckoo clock now" and also alt="buy this cuckoo clock now" - for all 20 img's?


I'm not sure why you'd need a title on a "buy now" button. For the alt attribute, if the image is a picture (i.e. a photo) then a very brief description of the picture would go in the alt text, i.e. cuckoo clock. If it's just a button with text on, i.e. you're using a button to replace plain text, you'd simply put the text on the button in the alt text - "buy now".



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 15:26:42)

quote:

ORIGINAL: d a v e

I'm not sure why you'd need a title on a "buy now" button. For the alt attribute, if the image is a picture (i.e. a photo) then a very brief description of the picture would go in the alt text, i.e. cuckoo clock. If it's just a button with text on, i.e. you're using a button to replace plain text, you'd simply put the text on the button in the alt text - "buy now".


my understanding is that the "title" is what appears when the user hovers over the image. I don't think this is always the case in all browsers with just an alt tag?

It would be nice if it was as clear cut as: the alt tag is what the SE bots read for the img description and the title tag is what the user sees when their mose hovers over the img.

I'm thinking the SE bots read both the title tag and also the alt tag.

Here's an edited example of how I use both:

a href="http://linktobuypage" title="Click to Save $280 on Dell Inspiron 1420 Laptops">< img alt="Inspiron 1420 Laptop" src="dell-pix/inspiron-1420.gif" /a

Hence the rightly levelled accusation of my keyword stuffing huh?!?!



womble -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 16:18:46)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelea
It would be nice if it was as clear cut as: the alt tag is what the SE bots read for the img description and the title tag is what the user sees when their mose hovers over the img.


SEs might read them, but there are only two reasons for alt text - 1) it shows if the image doesn't load or is missing so the user knows what should be there, 2) assistive browsers, e.g. screenreaders, read it so their user knows what the image represents. SEO shouldn't come into alt text - that's why you get penalised for keyword stuffing, because unscrupulous webmasters have used alt text to try and fool the SEs. As for title tags, the purpose of the button should be clear enough from it's wording/placement that a title shouldn't be needed.



michaelea -> RE: My Site's disappeared from google overnight?? (3/25/2008 16:27:36)

Gotcha! Thanks.

So I'm pretty sure I goddit now - at least for a couple of minutes! Here I've been thinking for over a year that alt tags were used by search engine bots and web coders for more purposes than what womble so succinctly stated above - which makes perfect sense (what womble says) to me.

SEO software goes on and on about alt tags; current standards require alt tags even if it's alt=""; information on the web harps on about these tags too, and, in a way, i've beeen misunderstanding or, at least I lost the original intention of what they were about. Thanks for clarifying that womble.

So, I'll be busy for a while going though all my little pictures and buttons and knocking out the stuffing! Thanks to ya'll for making me a better coder. I appreciate it. Yes I do.



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