Comment or suggestions? (Full Version)

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rdouglass -> Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 1:13:19)

Getting ready to roll out a site here:

http://www.atrainerontheroad.com/

Not everything is completely functional and is lacking a little content in areas but I'm soliciting input anyways. [;)]

Any comments or suggestions?



Tailslide -> RE: Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 2:32:07)

Hi Roger - that's you in the top left photo isn't it?

It's a nice looking site.

The few things I picked up on would be:

1. I know you're still working on it - but some of the inner pages don't validate (yet) so I'd be careful if you're going to use those W3C icons - actually I wouldn't bother with them anyway - they're ugly and no-one knows what they mean!!
2. I'd increase the line-height for the main content area just slightly.
3. You're using PX to size the text which has all the usual effects for IE users.
4. The boxes in the left sidebar break on font-size increase. The one on the right doesn't so maybe repeat that technique on the left?
5. The nav background is overflowed on font-size increase. I'd have the background-colour set to allow for this - or make the background image much taller.
6. The contact form doesn't have any labels and you're using captcha on one of them with no alternate method of getting through the form.
7. I'd have the bottom nav in a list too.
8. I'd make the link for the image replacement header white so it's easier to see with no images on.
9. You need focus and active rules along with your hover rules for links and the nav
10. The dropdown lists only work for mouse-users and there's no way to get to the sub-pages without a mouse - so maybe add a sitemap?
11. Have you thought about adding skip links - there's quite a lot of navigation to get through on each page.
12. On the table on the locator page it'd be better to have THs to make it more accessible.
13. You've got a lot of inline styling there - it's going to make maintenance a real pain!!
14. One of the scripts is throwing an error badly in Opera.

That looks like a long list but to be honest most of it's easily fixed and you've got yourself not only a really attractive site but one that's very accessible too.

Jeez Roger you're up late - you waiting around for us lot over here to appear?



jaybee -> RE: Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 2:56:22)

LOL, I'll let you sort that lot out before wading in. [:D]



rdouglass -> RE: Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 9:32:15)

All good stuff and thanks for that list.

quote:

3. You're using PX to size the text which has all the usual effects for IE users.


OK, so I'm trying to set a base font size in the 'body' declaration of the CSS: 
font:normal 16px Verdana,Arial,Geneva,Helvetica,sans-serif;

So I set a base font of 16px and scale it using em's everywhere. (at least that's what I've been tryng to do and I don't think I'm using px anywhere else.) 
p
{
	font-size: .8em;
	margin: 10px;
}

Is there a better way to set that base font or am I going about this wrong?

quote:

11. Have you thought about adding skip links - there's quite a lot of navigation to get through on each page.


I'm not familiar with this; have any reference links handy I can see or a quick rundown on how to do that?

quote:

13. You've got a lot of inline styling there - it's going to make maintenance a real pain!!


Old habit of mine. I like to work off as few pages as possible so many times when I'm dealing with DB data, I do all the style adjustments in-line until I get what I want. I ususally have a class parameter already in the tag so it isn't any advantage or anything like that but just old habits.

That will be gone for the final. [:D]

Thanks so much for that list. All good, constructive suggestions.



Tailslide -> RE: Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 9:57:04)

Yes the font resizing definitely isn't working in IE so it must be that any use of PX is killing it. People tend to find what works for them - I use 100% on the body element and then 76% on the main container div. I'd stick with using 100% on the body and see if the 1em on everything else is ok - should be fine.

Skip links - basically for people using screenreaders or small screen devices - they allow them to skip over a long navigation menu straight to the content or straight over the content to the navigation if that's the case. It's a time saver for them. If you're using an id on your navigation (or content) then you can just make that the target of the link. There are "issues" with IE (oh big surprise) and haslayout things which means that this doesn't always work and you sometimes have to add a link like this: <a id="navigation" name="navigation"> </a>. I do that a fair bit out of habit but it works fine. BTW - using name there is for older browsers as they don't understand ID.

There's a whole big discussion about whether skip links should be visible or not - some people tend to position them off-screen. personally I keep them visible as they're useful for people with PDAs etc and I don't find them particularly offensive! I tend to have them first thing on the page along with a link to the accessibility page and sometimes a sitemap like this: 

<ul id="skip">
  <li><a href="#navigation">Skip to Navigation</a></li>
  <li><a href="accessibility.html">Accessibility</a></li>
</ul>


More details here: http://jimthatcher.com/skipnav.htm
Here's another approach: http://www.webstandards.org/ (hover your mouse towards the top of the page).

If there's only a few items of navigation then I wouldn't bother with it. More than 5 I would. Oh and, small point, if you're skipping to content - make sure the link name is contents with an s on the end or screenreaders read it wrong!



Larry M. -> RE: Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 18:08:37)

Roger,

To Tailslide's 14 points, allow me to add number 15: I'm getting about a half-inch of horizontal scroll at 1024x768.

Think I remember you're commenting in another OF thread you design at 1280x1024 (which has a limited target audience of +/- 10%).

Perhaps you should rethink this screen resolution development approach [sm=ask.gif]



treetopsranch -> RE: Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 19:30:40)

About 3 inches of horizontal scroll on my 800 res monitor.



rdouglass -> RE: Comment or suggestions? (4/25/2008 23:14:38)

quote:

To Tailslide's 14 points, allow me to add number 15: I'm getting about a half-inch of horizontal scroll at 1024x768


Yeah, I know. I've been trying to come to grips with that one. You see all the content but you also see the scroll. I was trying to avoid it but you're right. [;)] I actually try to make it max 990px for scroll bar room but couldn't seem to make that comfortable. I guess I have that outside shadow border and margin as well as all the internal margins I can steal a few pix from each.

Sorry Don, I'll never change this one to fit 800. [;)]



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