navigation
a webmaster learning community
     Home    Register     Search      Help      Login    
Sponsors

Shopping Cart Software
Ecommerce software integrated into Frontpage, Dreamweaver and Golive templates. No monthly fees and available in ASP and PHP versions.

Website Templates
We also have a wide selection of Dreamweaver, Expression Web and Frontpage templates as well as webmaster tools and CSS layouts.

Frontpage website templates
Creative Website Templates for FrontPage, Dreamweaver, Flash, SwishMax

Search Forums
 

Advanced search
Recent Posts

 Todays Posts
 Most Active posts
 Posts since last visit
 My Recent Posts
 Mark posts read

Microsoft MVP

 

Help! I'm in trouble!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
Printable Version 

All Forums >> Web Development >> Microsoft FrontPage Help >> Help! I'm in trouble! 		Page: [1]
 
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 10:49:14   
I'm helping a friend of mine (71 years young) that wants this template. We've managed all along with this freebie, but there are serious problems with it, and the creator even admits this.

Look at this page: http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com

The template came from a freesite and you can see the original 'out-of-the-box' template at: http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com/4053/redgrey/index

So, here's the problem...
The original template came with the header (was in 5 sections and repeated so if you stretch, it looks ridiculous) that I had to make a 'picture' with the letters in using paintbrush(!!) and then paste it into place. That's fixed...
The left navigation has me STUCK. It was one section with the top starting with a red menu and then you type what you want for nav below. Sounds good? Well, if you type more text in the "BODY" than the length of that navigation, it also repeats so you see "MENU" again.
So I tried making the red "MENU" a separate picture and then the lower section a separate picture. When you type additional text in the body, you have to manually stretch the gray navigation.
HOWEVER, it won't let me set the gray to a background picture, and I can't type text in there , even if I add the text using the picture toolbar and have the hyperlinks work.
If I make the whole navigation side with the text included and have to stretch the navigation to follow along with the body content, it will stretch the words.
Help! I really want this to work for this gentleman. He's been a great friend, and wants THIS template/color scheme.
jaybee

 

Posts: 14157
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 11:52:14   
This is a prime example of using a template and not understanding the HTML code that goes behind it.

I suspect you're just using design view and sticking things in. They're then going outside of the table cells which is causing the problem. You also have the page way over to the right as you've managed to put a huge left margin in which wasn't in the original.

<body link="#FFFFFF" vlink="#FFFFFF" alink="#FFFFFF" text="#FFFFFF" bgcolor="#000000" leftmargin="225">

His menu is built using: 

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="800" id="AutoNumber2" height="420">
  <tr>
    <td width="170" height="401">
    <table background="images/nav2.gif" height="400" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="170" id="AutoNumber3">

      <tr>
        <td valign="top"><font face="Verdana" size="2">  <br><br><br><ul><li><a href="#">Home</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Products</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Services</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Contact</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Links</a></li><ul></font></td>

      </tr>
    </table>
    </td>

a background image for the menu graphic followed by a list for the menu items, you need to add to that list. What you've done is: 

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="800" id="AutoNumber2" height="425">
  <tr>
    <td width="153" height="401" bgcolor="#8E8E8E" style="border-style: outset; border-width: 0; " align="left" valign="top">
    <font face="Verdana" size="2">
    <img border="0" src="4053/redgrey/images/page121.gif" align="texttop" width="153" height="54"></font><p>
	<i><b><font face="Verdana" color="#00FF00">Roberts Stuff</font></b></i></p>

	<p>
	<font face="Verdana" size="2"><a href="index.html">Home</a></font></p>
	<p>
	<font face="Verdana" size="2"><a href="The%20Dog%20House.html">The Dog House</a></font></p>
	<p><font face="Verdana" size="2"><a href="Pyrography.html">Pyrography</a></font></p>
	<p><i><font face="Verdana" color="#00FF00"><b>In The Past</b> </font></i></p>

	<p><font face="Verdana" size="2">
	<a href="Ink%20and%20Water%20Color%20Pincels.html">Ink and Water Color Pencils</a></font></p>
	<p><font face="Verdana" size="2">
	<a href="Reversed%20Glass%20Paintings.html">Reversed Glass Paintings</a></font><p>
	<i><b><font face="Verdana" color="#00FF00">Wills Stuff</font></b></i><p>


completely ignored the list and shove paragraphs in which is why it's all over the place.

I suggest you start again with the original template, make your header fit the same size images as the originals he supplied to you then just edit the links he already has in place, don't delete them and try to replace them.

You would also help yourself no end if you learned some HTML www.w3schools.com

_____________________________

If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is.
:)

:)
GAWDS
Now where did I put that Doctype?

(in reply to vicky)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 12:19:38   
What you are viewing at the home page is how my gentleman friend did it, putting the margin over. He wants it centere, which I have done with no problem. See:
http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com/test1

I think you missed the point of the topic. If I extend the BODY text beyond the lowest part of the navigation grey, it just repeats.

I appreciate your offer for the html class, but I have many other web sites that I've done (www.avchimera.com, www.bargainbeads.net, just to name a couple.)

(in reply to vicky)
Larry M.

 

Posts: 2722
Joined: 2/20/2003
From: Greenville, South Carolina, USA
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 15:00:13   
quote:

If I extend the BODY text beyond the lowest part of the navigation grey, it just repeats


Oh? Lack of centering & forced left navigation aside http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com/ shows text wrapping correctly.

And ... BTW, Jaybee didn't miss your point. In an attempt to help, she diplomatically pointed out that you don't know as much as you think you know.

_____________________________

Larry M.

Indecision is the Key to Flexibility.

(in reply to vicky)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 16:26:29   
I know I don't know everything! I never said that I did, just that I do know basic html. I would never try to imply that I'm an expert or that I know all there is to know - if I did, why would I be asking for helP? I know NOTHING about graphics and overlays. But I do know that this template is not working as it should.
I guess I'm not expressing this correctly. If I put 50 lines in the body of this template, the left navigation repeats and it looks dumb with the red menu repeating down the page.
I appreciate the fact that this forum is offered. I don't think I'm being understood here.
Look at this page to see what I mean. This is the ORIGINAL TEMPLATE and all I've done is repeat the wording in the body so you can see what the navigation is doing.
http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com/4053/redgrey/template1

(in reply to vicky)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 16:29:21   
then if I try to add lines to the navigation area to stretch to keep up with the length of the body to correct this gap, it does this:
http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com/4053/redgrey/template2

(in reply to vicky)
jaybee

 

Posts: 14157
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 17:02:29   
It's because there are heights specified for all the elements of the page. The body content is specified at 401 pixels and you've added text in that takes it to 700 pixels so the rest of the template shifts to compensate.

If you're going to use somebody else's template and something doesn't work right then you have to go into the code to find the problem. Constantly hitting FP buttons just makes it worse. 

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="800" id="AutoNumber2" height="420">
  <tr>
    <td width="170" height="401">
    <table background="images/nav2.gif" height="400" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="170" id="AutoNumber3">

      <tr>
        <td valign="top"><font face="Verdana" size="2">  <br><br><br><ul><li><a href="#">Home</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Products</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Services</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Contact</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Links</a></li><ul></font></td>

      </tr>
    </table>
    </td>
    <td valign="top" height="401"><font face="Verdana" size="2"> <h2>   Welcome</h2><br>


and you need to check your sites in something other than Internet Explorer.




Thumbnail Image
:)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jaybee -- 6/19/2008 17:09:50 >

_____________________________

If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is.
:)

:)
GAWDS
Now where did I put that Doctype?

(in reply to vicky)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 17:11:52   
ok, I changed the code to 800 to see what it would do, and it still just repeats.
http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com/4053/redgrey/template2

(in reply to vicky)
jaybee

 

Posts: 14157
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 17:13:33   
and...



Thumbnail Image
:)

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is.
:)

:)
GAWDS
Now where did I put that Doctype?

(in reply to jaybee)
jaybee

 

Posts: 14157
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 17:16:20    
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="800" id="AutoNumber2" height="420">
  <tr>
    <td width="170" >
    <table background="images/nav2.gif" height="800" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="170" id="AutoNumber3">

      <tr>
        <td valign="top"><font face="Verdana" size="2">  <br><br><br><ul><li><a href="#">Home</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Products</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Services</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Contact</a></li>
        <li><a href="#">Links</a></li></font>

		</ul>
		</td>
      </tr>
    </table>
    </td>
    <td valign="top" height="401"><font face="Verdana" size="2"> <h2>   Welcome</h2><br>
    -------------------------------------------------<p><br>

       


You only changed one part of it. You need to look at the template as a whole and if you adjust one size work out what other sizes also need to change.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is.
:)

:)
GAWDS
Now where did I put that Doctype?

(in reply to jaybee)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/19/2008 21:17:08   
I tired changing both areas and it didn't do anything.
http://www.pyrographyandsuch.com/4053/redgrey/template2

as far as the other site that you have a picture of above, that bottom link is not a real high priority for me.

(in reply to vicky)
jaybee

 

Posts: 14157
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/20/2008 6:31:53   
quote:

You need to look at the template as a whole and if you adjust one size work out what other sizes also need to change.


Look at your images. nav2.gif is the background image for the menu block, it's 400 pixels high. When you expand the page to 800 it repeats the image which is why you get the menu graphic again.

This template was never designed to be any larger than it shows up as originally. If you want it larger then you need to change all the elements that go with it. There are various ways of doing it. Increasing the graphic size is one. I would take the menu image out and save it as a separate graphic and place that at the top of the left bar, I'd then have the background as a 1 pixel high strip of the silver grey and repeat it down the block.

Be aware, that if you just double the size of the graphic in that left column then all your pages will be that height. If you make them any longer then the graphic will repeat again.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is.
:)

:)
GAWDS
Now where did I put that Doctype?

(in reply to vicky)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/20/2008 9:59:34   
Well, with all the bantering yesterday, I did figure it out on my own. (Even though I'm very clear that I'm in the idiot category based on your feedback) As I stated from the beginning, the template is not the greatest as you finally noticed when you say it was not designed to be any larger than the original (but the creator didn't intend this to his own admission - a tedious POS that should have never been out there for folks to use.)

The top menu picture has been made a separate picture. The gradient gray is also a separate picture. Making it a tiny 1 pixel high strip loses the gradient, so that would not work. Then I used overlays to place the menu navigation with the links. When the body content goes beyond the grey graphic, I just click on the grey and stretch it lower. It doesn't impact the text of the navigation because it was inserted using overlays. By doubling the gradient, I would end up with the same original problem and it would have looked dumb.

Thanks so much for your help anyways. Have a look as the entire site has been re-done. www.pyrographyandsuch.com
There's no flash, bells or whistles, but I got around the template. Not to bad for an idiot.

< Message edited by vicky -- 6/20/2008 10:06:47 >

(in reply to vicky)
jaybee

 

Posts: 14157
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/20/2008 10:32:54   

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicky

Well, with all the bantering yesterday, I did figure it out on my own. (Even though I'm very clear that I'm in the idiot category based on your feedback) As I stated from the beginning, the template is not the greatest as you finally noticed when you say it was not designed to be any larger than the original (but the creator didn't intend this to his own admission - a tedious POS that should have never been out there for folks to use.)


The template is fine as long as you understand it for what it is and realise that you have to make substantial changes if you want to go beyond what is initially presented. I did say back at the beginning that you need to look in the code to see what is going on and adjust things to suit. I was well aware the template was fixed.

quote:

The top menu picture has been made a separate picture. The gradient gray is also a separate picture. Making it a tiny 1 pixel high strip loses the gradient, so that would not work. Then I used overlays to place the menu navigation with the links. When the body content goes beyond the grey graphic, I just click on the grey and stretch it lower. It doesn't impact the text of the navigation because it was inserted using overlays. By doubling the gradient, I would end up with the same original problem and it would have looked dumb.


There is a problem with that approach. You have a large graphic in there for what basically amounts to a grey block. The image is 53.19 KB which is a lot of weight for a page to carry along with any other images on it. To handle down-gradients you make the image 1 pixel wide by whatever high, repeat it across, then set the background colour to the same as the palest colour at the bottom of the gradient so there's a seamless transition.

quote:

Thanks so much for your help anyways. Have a look as the entire site has been re-done. www.pyrographyandsuch.com
There's no flash, bells or whistles, but I got around the template. Not to bad for an idiot.


It's not looking at all bad and I never said you were an idiot, just that working with somebody else's template requires using the code to find out what's going on.

The only thing on there I'm not mad about is the lime green in the nav block. Against the grey it fluoresces and is a bit hard on the eyes and your links don't change on hover so it's not obvious they are links. Other wise it's nice and clean.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is.
:)

:)
GAWDS
Now where did I put that Doctype?

(in reply to vicky)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/20/2008 11:13:32   
I don't like the template, and I really don't like the green....but it's not my website. It's what this friend of mine wants and he's pretty set in his ways at 71. I know when not to push him. I would have steered him away from this template to begin with, but this is what he wanted. He's been a dear friend so I don't mind some headache to give him what he wants. Thanks again guys!

(in reply to vicky)
Larry M.

 

Posts: 2722
Joined: 2/20/2003
From: Greenville, South Carolina, USA
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/20/2008 13:11:16   
quote:

Even though I'm very clear that I'm in the idiot category based on your feedback


That was me, not Jaybee although I didn't actually say I thought you are are an "idiot".

Based on the ensuing back and forth here, I haven't changed my mind and offer no retraction :)

_____________________________

Larry M.

Indecision is the Key to Flexibility.

(in reply to vicky)
vicky

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

  		RE: Help! I'm in trouble! - 6/20/2008 17:38:59   
charming

(in reply to vicky)
Page:   [1]

All Forums >> Web Development >> Microsoft FrontPage Help >> Help! I'm in trouble! 		Page: [1]
Jump to: 1





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Back to top

  Microsoft Corporation in no way endorses or is affiliated with "OutFront."
  OutFront is published and edited by Thomas Brunt.
  440 Great Circle Dr., St. Matthews, SC 29135.
  © 2008 All Rights Reserved
  Click here to view our privacy statement.