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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site
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Mango Himself
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/12/2008 16:39:42
Hey Larry,
you're doing great. As you say, it is kinda difficult without the software. I used 2000 so long ago, I can't even remember many things. I would personally go for a different editor and stay away from FPEs.
I am finally trying EW and I am quite impressed. I use DW or handcode (when it's not a large project) but EW seems intereresting so far. How do you feel about it?
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/12/2008 21:02:40
Mango, Larry,
No problem, I had hoped that some of the almost 1500 hits might yield other considerations. Larry and I have so much invested in solving this, I don't want to look like a quitter, but today has brought some tough problems to light.
Summary:
- I spent a lot of the day soldering wires on the model railroad. Great therapy because I do it very, very well.
- Due to the "AuthUserFile, AuthGroupFile" crap that I was running into with the other ISP, I decided to try installing a password protected subweb on my lightly regarded but fun web site which is hosted right here at OutFront. I figured being close to home would reduce some variables.
- Everything on the tutorial went like clockwork. I even figued out that the "Tools" menu item that Tom Brunt called "Server" was called "Security" on my "Tools" menu.
- However, the page that I created, Test001, doesn't appear to be password protected. Could you give it a try? If it is protected the UN/PW are Test001.
- Another simpleton question. How do you "reverse publish" something created directly on the ISP server back to your own computer? My subweb is shown out there as "palmeter.com/ProtectedDWP" on the server but does not appear on my C drive, even after several "Publish, including Subwebs" cycles. What am I missing?
Anyhow, the latest with the problem for the choo-choo web and the password pages is the fact that the LooneyPages tech guy sent me a rather curt note saying they don't dabble in FrontPage but I should use their cPanel Password Protect function. That is what I tried yesterday that didn't work and now won't even let me create a subweb because of the Auth,Auth twins. I have put a plea in their Beginners Forum but am getting lots of yawns and no responses so far (but just asked today).
In light of all the above, may I beg your indulgence, Larry, that we focus only on getting a Password Protect running here on home turf at palmeter.com and, if the LooneyTunes folks can't get me going with FP 2000 at their store, then I will take a close look at the good Mr Mango's $34 suggestion.
How say you?
Thanks for reading this far,
David
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/13/2008 8:19:31
David,
I'll have to answer, or at least try to answer, your questions in stages today because of time constraints:
quote:
the page that I created, Test001, doesn't appear to be password protected. Could you give it a try? If it is protected the UN/PW are Test001
Nope, page doesn't ask for UN/PW - I'll have to reconstruct what you've done (or haven't) later on.
quote:
How do you "reverse publish"
(1) In FrontPage, open your server files by clicking File >>Open, (2) Browse to “My Network Places” (3) In the File Name field type the complete web site address, for example: " http://www.yourwebsite.com", (4) Enter your username & password when prompted, (5) Once the server files open in FrontPage click File >> Publish Site and, (6) For the address to publish, enter a destination on your hard drive, for example: C:\My Documents\My Webs\mysite. (Note: if the location doesn’t exist on your hard drive, you will be prompted to “Create? Yes or No”. Answer Yes.)
(see below before proceeding) Last step: Republish to Host Overwriting all Files - Site will then be “In Step”
quote:
My subweb is shown out there is "palmeter.com/ProtectedDWP" on the server but does not appear on my C drive, even after several "Publish, including Subwebs" cycles
The password protected subweb was created at and is controlled at the host level. This is a gray area for me: I don't think you need to have a copy at the local level; in fact republishing the protected subweb may compromise the host level work. Hopefully another OutFronter can venture an opinion in this regard.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/13/2008 11:31:03
David,
Let me know if Big Model Trains for Old Guys is on a UNIX or Windows server.
Windows servers often deny Control Panel Permissions changes to FrontPage users and may deny subwebs (subsites) altogether.
If you are on a UNIX server I think I'm at the point I can pass on step-by-step instructions in a semi-articulate manner.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/13/2008 11:36:17
Larry,
The cPanel says that the "Operating System" is "Linux" and that the "Apache Version" is "1.3.41 (Unix)". Does that make sense?
David
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/13/2008 14:30:58
David,
I hate workarounds, so I've tried to stay true to Tom Brunt's very comprehensive article on Subweb Permissions Here adding, deleting, modifying and simplifying as I thought best. Disregard what's gone on before and, if you follow this to the letter, things should look up 
Step 1 -- Open Your Site “Live”
In FrontPage with NO site files called-up >File > Open Web > Enter http://www.indylargescaler.org/ in the File name field > Enter User name and Password > OK. Now, you're working on the server the same way you normally work on your local computer except the Open file menu, Look in field reads: www.indylargescaler.org/. Scan through site files and double click the index.htm (html) file - site now opens on the server which can be verified by the address bar at top which should (must) read: Microsoft FrontPage - http://www.indylargescaler.org/.
Step 2 -- Create a New Folder
> View > Folders > then click on the Yellow Folder icon which is to the far right adjacent to “Contents of http://www.indylargescaler.org/ (In FP 2000/02, click the "folders view" button on the left column of the FP window). New_Folder appears which you should right click and rename to permissions. This becomes the (unconverted) name of your new subweb (subsite).
Step 3 -- Convert Folder to Web
Right click on the new folder (permissions), then > Select Convert to Web. This causes FrontPage to place hidden configuration files into that folder. These configuration files allow FrontPage to treat that folder as a distinct and separate Web Site so that any global changes you make within that subweb / subsite do not flow through to the rest of your main site, http://www.indylargescaler.org/, and any global changes you make to your main site do not flow through to your subwebs / subsites. Folders on your hard drive with names that begin with _vti, these are the configuration files.
You will see an alert box when you select Convert to Web which begins with “Changing this folder into a Web Site will cause pages in it to change … and ends with Are you sure you want to do this?” Answer Yes. When the change has been made the permissions folder will now display with a green globe inside the yellow folder icon.
Step 4 -- Open Subweb/Subsite and Open the Server Administration Web
Double click the subweb/subsite permissions icon. Then > Tools > Server > Permissions > enter Username/Password. This will bring up a protected Web site that uses the same permissions you use for FrontPage access. This can be verified on the address bar which should (must) now read: http://www.indylargescaler.org/permissions
Step 5 -- Change Permissions
(A) Click "Change permissions" > Check “Use unique permissions for this Web site" > Click Submit, then click the "Administration" link (top left of the page in blue bar).
(B) Click "Change anonymous access settings" > Click "Change Anonymous Access Settings" then click Off > Click Submit. (This prevents users who have not been supplied with a userID/Password from accessing the permissions subweb/subsite.
Back on the main Administration page, click "Manage users" > Click "Add a user" > Enter a new Username (member) and Password (largescaler) > Enter the Password again (largescaler) to confirm it > Decide whether you want the new user to have admin, author, or browser level access (I suggest Browser) > Click Add User. Note: You can change the Username/Password once you get through this.
There’s More: At this point you have to publish content to the subweb/subsite. Post again for step-by-step instructions.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/13/2008 16:46:14
Hi Larry,
I gave it a shot but some instructions looked a little different on my screen. I was definitely in the host like it should and everything looked okay until I got to the end of Step 3. Once again, I got the Auth/Auth attack right after I answered Yes to the "Yadda, yadda Are you sure you want to do this? question." The exact wording is:
"Server error: Error initializing access control: can't inherit access control settings from the root web because it is missing the AuthUserFile and AuthGroupFile directives."
I'll try again tomorrow using your exact steps or will record what I have to change. Were you doing anything different to avoid the Auth/Auth problem?
Ironically, I'm off to the neighborhood board meeting to tell them how Associa is going to make their home owners associations web sites more user friendly. They confessed that they laid on so much fluff that they paralyzed the sites, so they are rebuilding so we home owners can have some hope of using them.
David
Maybe I should go back to the '30's from whence I came.......
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 12:14:07
Hi Larry, Hi Groupies,
Bad News, Good News.
I certainly appreciate the time you took to rewrite the tutorial. It helped a lot to know what to look for to assure that I had arrived at the correct screen. I followed each and every step carefully and exactly, with these minor tweaks:
In Step 1 "Enter http://www.indylargescaler.org/ in the File name field" - on my screen that is called the Folder name field (but it worked okay)
Also in Step 1, right after the above instruction, I clicked "Open" to bring up the Username and Password window.
In Step 2 - "New Folder appears...." I had to do a File>New>Folder to get a new folder to appear.
In Step 3 - The Bad News is, of course, the Auth/Auth monster hit again. It is apparently an incompatibility at the LunarPages end so I will have to work that out with them.
HOWEVER
The good news is, I followed the same instructions with my good ol' home grown palmeter.com and arrived, without glitch, at the generous offer of:
"There’s More: At this point you have to publish content to the subweb/subsite. Post again for step-by-step instructions."
Let's salvage something for all our effort spent (and for our cult following). I would like to learn how to do this thing against the day that I actually burrow through the LooneyTunes barrier and we can get the Big Little Choo Choos for Old Guys site protected.
Are you up for one more round? Can we finish the "permissions" subweb on my palmeter.com site? The degree of difficulty should be way down on this one!
Regards,
David
I was almost 10 years old when the transistor was invented
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 13:06:13
quote:
The good news is, I followed the same instructions with my good ol' home grown palmeter.com
So there won't be a slip between the cup and the lip, so-to-speak, let me know the name of the new subweb/subsite folder you created live at www.palmeter.com/.
In the meantime, (1) go ahead and create a new web site in FrontPage naming it to agree with the name of your subweb/subsite folder and, (2) insert the content you want your members to have password access to inside the protected folder.
I'll post step-by-step publishing instructions when I get this info and when you are ready to publish 
BTW, I was only half right when I said you won't be able to show the protected subweb/subsite locally. Actually you will when the dust settles, however, the administrative permissions for that subweb/subsite will reside on the host server until (1) it is deleted or (2) the administrative permission settings are changed.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 13:26:08
Hi,
I forgot a couple more FrontPage 2000 notes to add to the tutorial rewrite:
Steps 4 & 5 - Tools>Server> Permissions on my system is Tools>Security and then a window opens with two boxes to choose "Same permissions as parent web" or "Unique permissions". At the top of this window are two tabs, the one just described is "Settings" and the other is "Users".
There is no "Administration" link. At the bottom of the "Users" window are choices of "Everyone has browse access." or "Only registered users have browse access." This window then allows registering users and passwords as you noted. Although different, all the same functions seem to have been covered.
David
The Big Bang was actually a Big Bounce?
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 13:36:56
Hi Larry,
Didn't see that you had posted.
The new subweb is "permissions".
How do I put a web on my local without messing up the one that is there?
David
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 13:52:08
quote:
a window opens with two boxes to choose "Same permissions as parent web" or "Unique permissions"
For sure, don't select "same permissions" or you'll end-up with your parent site password protected, not the permissions subweb/subsite.
quote:
At the top of this window are two tabs, the one just described is "Settings" and the other is "Users".
Not tabs, look for Administration in the blue bar at the top left. This particular step shouldn't vary by host.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 13:55:00
Hi,
I just used the File>New>Web function in FrontPage and made a new web (not subweb) and called it "permissions". It is in the "MyWebs" folder on my C drive next to, not in, the "palmeter" web folder. It has a page 1 of test content that is pretending to need protection.
How am I doing?
David
Do I appear confident?
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 14:32:32
Done, it has a big picture.
D
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 15:47:08
Larry,
Here is my "screen shot" attempt. I'm not finding the Admin area. I think the same thing happens in FP 2000 with different boxes. What say you?
I am about 15 minutes away from the "Overnight Invasion of the Four-Year-Old" so my focus will be on Thomas the Tank engine, Hot Wheels and slot cars, not all bad.
Thanks again for all the thrash time, I should be recovered by early tomorrow afternoon. I'll peek in occasionally in the meantime.
David
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 15:59:59
quote:
I'm not finding the Admin area
David,
Here's what I suggest: PM me with the username and password for www.palmeter.com/ and I'll try and setup the permissions subweb/subsite at the host level for you. You can (and should) change the PW later.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 16:48:54
quote:
PM me with the username and password for www.palmeter.com/
I have your PM with the palmeter site un/pw and will take a (hopefully remedial) peak later on or first thing tomorrow.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 18:39:30
David,
It looks like you got through most of steps.
In any case I have your protected subweb/subsite setup at http://www.palmeter.com/permissions/. I published a photo of our home taken today (last of fall colors) so you'll have something to look at.
The Username is: LarryM (Administrator Privileges)
The Password is: flynavy
Both UN & PW are case sensitive.
When you're ready I'll go over the steps again with you.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/14/2008 21:40:39
Hi Larry,
The grandson has worn us out but we finally got him in bed before we crashed. Got a look at the "permissions" page, you really upgraded the palmeter.com website! Nice picture, my congratulations to you and Dorothy on a very nice looking place!
I like the password, my Navy time was spent aboard the USS Orion, AS-18 back in the '50's. We were the sub tender for Submarine Squadron Six in Norfolk, Va. Real glamour duty. I did spend some time in the Virgin Islands, not all bad. It was quite an eye-popper for an 18-yr old kid from the hills of eastern Kentucky to learn that the people from Yurp change into their swimwear right there on the beach.
Let's pick things up tomorrow afternoon, I'll check back in when I'm fully recovered from grandson enjoyments.
David
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/15/2008 15:46:42
Hi Larry,
I'm ready to get this palmeter.com protected page opportunity figured out when you have time.
I finally got a good contact at the other ISP forum and it looks like the solution for the Railroad Site will take a completely different tack (no subweb).
Thanks,
David
"Motor gently into the greasemud, for therein lies the skid demon."
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Larry M.
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/15/2008 16:31:21
quote:
I'm ready to get this palmeter.com protected page opportunity figured out when you have time
Make sure Permissions is a new web site with content on the index.htm (html) page then publish to:
http://www.palmeter.com/permissions
You will be asked for your username/password once or possibly twice in the process which are the one's for the parent site, not the protected site.
(1) Quit FrontPage, (2) Clear you cache and (3) call-up http://www.palmeter.com/permissions/ which should produce a request for UN/PW. Enter LarryM / flynavy (observe case) to see if the folder allows access. Picture of our SC home (behind a screen of trees) still there but I may change it between now and then to something more interesting.
You still need to get through all steps from #3 forward in order to delete my Admin info and subsitute your own.
Let me know when you are ready.
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Larry M.
"Money talks only when it's a large amount."
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/15/2008 16:39:12
Hi,
What does "clear my cache" mean?
David
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/15/2008 16:48:12
L - I didn't clear the cache but I found the cloud picture. D
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7000in5th
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RE: Need some simple talk about starting a second web site - 11/15/2008 16:52:34
l - Actually, it wouldn't let me create a permissions web since yours was still there. Assume I am to delete yours? D
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Printable Version 
) and (2), if that "flunks", it would seem to point at constraints imposed by your host. I'm out of suggestions past that point other than for you to cough-up $34 per Mango's recommendation. 
