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Thomas Brunt Posts: 6210 Joined: 6/6/1998 From: St. Matthews SC USA Status: offline	FrontPage Alternative - 12/8/2008 15:15:48 Many of you know that supporting FrontPage users has been a major part of my business for many years. It probably won’t surprise you to read that I receive requests for advice every day from hobbyists and semi professional webmasters asking what to do about the demise of Microsoft FrontPage. They want to know if they should move to Expression Web or Dreamweaver or if they should stay put. I think the correct answer to the question depends upon your circumstances. If you’re a .NET coder then you should be using Expression Web. If you’re a php coder, or if you’re comfortable with advanced css and html then you should be using Dreamweaver. Personally, however, I prefer notepad. Most of the folks I talk to, however, are not .NET coders and are not comfortable with css and html. They just want to make and edit simple sites in a wisiwyg environment. They believe they need software on their hard drives in order to accomplish this, but such is no longer the case. A good content management system installed on the server is all you need. The best systems are open source and free of charge. You can develop and maintain very sophisticated sites without knowing the code if you’re using a good content management system. Contrary to popular opinion, nothing horrible will happen to you this year or next if you stick with FrontPage. There is probably lots of room for improvement in your site if you’re still using FP, but you may not care. I have lots of clients with very successful sites that don’t need to be improved. Lots of folks tell them that noncompliant code will eventually result in sites that don’t work. That may be true someday in the future but not in the coming year. I personally wouldn’t worry about it on that level. I would be more concerned with how much of a disadvantage I have from the standpoint of adding useful functionality. Nobody is developing new and exciting FrontPage plugins these days. Thousands of developers are working on plug-ins for Joomla! Wordpress, and others. They’re making the technology very easy to use. Why would you NOT want to take advantage of that? If you don’t want to lean css and you’re happy with the functionality and appearance of your site as it is then I can’t make a good argument for you to switch from FrontPage. If, however, you want to add sophisticated functionality with ease and you want to use technology that’s likely to be around for the long term then I have created a site specifically for you. I hope you like it. FrontPage Alternative < Message edited by Thomas Brunt -- 12/10/2008 12:52:48 >


Tailslide Posts: 6713 Joined: 5/10/2005 From: Out here on the raggedy edge Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 12/13/2008 14:18:16 I think it's an interesting time - I think also that it's become clear that while FrontPage is dying (no longer supported and pretty soon very little choice of hosts offering FPSEs), Expressions hasn't really suceeded in fulfilling a useful role for hobbyists (or it could be argued "pros" but I won't go there!). What has become more and more obvious to me for a while is that for the vast majority of hobbyists (and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner) the absolute best and easiest solution to creating a nice looking, well-coded, cross-browser, easy to maintain, functional site is something like WordPress either standalone or hosted. There are so many hundreds of free templates, paid-for templates and useful plugins, monetisation options and lots of support available - the options are endless. It genuinely is simple to set up yourself, but if you don't fancy it there's always a service like this FrontPage Alternative. You can have a site up and running in minutes and know that it will work cross-browser and generally be basically accessible. If you get bored of the look of the site you can download a new theme and swap them over at a click of a button - literally. How can that not be a great thing! It could be said that this means that people like me will be worse off - if there are less "bad sites" around then they'll be less work for me - but there will always be people who need something completely custom so I'm not worried (plus I can build Wordpress themes!). Also I really would like there to be more well built sites around that I can read without opening up internet exploder! Good luck to you Thomas - I think it's an interesting service you're offering and one that should help drive up the quality of websites which would previously have been built with FrontPage. It will free up days and weeks of peoples' time - even for people who take the hint to use WordPress or what i understand is a greatly improved Joomla but prefer to give it a go themselves. Maybe you should think of offering a service to help deal with WP updates (checking plugins etc rather than actual updates as this is a one step procedure as from 2.7). Or updating the many many old versions of WP that are still out there but people are too scared to update. _____________________________ Little Blue Plane Web Design \| Land Rover project (in reply to Thomas Brunt)


TexasWebDevelopers Posts: 885 Joined: 2/22/2002 From: Dallas, TX Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 12/13/2008 19:00:59 We've been providing custom CMS with custom design for the last 2 years at a price point of around $1,200. It's great both for us and the clients and we can always (easily) add a shopping cart module or blog or other custom code quickly and very inexpensively while the owner does all of the existing page maintenance and new page creation. That's been the direction development has been headed for years. Although I was one of around 30 Microsoft MVP's who had input into the original EW program feature sets I was disappointed with the final release and continue to primatily use DreamWeaver and Visual Studio. As Silverlight gains traction, and the WPF becomes more accepted, EW will continue to have value to the developer community but less value to the general populace. _____________________________ Follow us on TWITTER (in reply to Tailslide)


OnDeck29 Posts: 2 Joined: 12/30/2008 Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 12/30/2008 11:58:10 I need some help guys... I have been using frontpage 2002 for several years... i am a school teacher/coach by trade and i'm in charge of running the state association website (tbca.org)... I want to do more with the site, perhaps add some video/flash, audio interviews, etc - i learn by doing but my available learning time is limited - i feel pretty proficient using fp02 but i know its time is limited... any suggestions would be helpful to me... how hard is ew2.0 to learn if using fp02? thanks in advance John (in reply to TexasWebDevelopers)


Thomas Brunt Posts: 6210 Joined: 6/6/1998 From: St. Matthews SC USA Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 12/30/2008 12:11:57 Why not use a CMS like Joomla? (in reply to OnDeck29)


OnDeck29 Posts: 2 Joined: 12/30/2008 Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 12/30/2008 13:08:52 i just went and downloaded all the stuff and was setting it up and when i got to the part of insalling the joomla (going to localhost/joomla15) i couldn't get to the setup page -- i'm going to try it again tonight when i have some time... how difficult is learning the joomla stuff? (in reply to Thomas Brunt)


Thomas Brunt Posts: 6210 Joined: 6/6/1998 From: St. Matthews SC USA Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 12/30/2008 13:47:30 It's pretty easy. Here is some more info on it. http://www.frontpagealternative.com/ t (in reply to OnDeck29)


bartnkat Posts: 1 Joined: 1/29/2009 Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 1/29/2009 10:02:35 Hi, I'm a new user here, but I've been using FrontPage for years. I like the idea of "What you see is what you get". I do know a little (very little) code and would prefer to NEVER have to build a website that way. We will be getting a new laptop soon and I'm looking for a new web building program. I taught myself FrontPage and wouldn't have any problems learning a new program. I would definitely prefer a program that would be permanently on my hard drive. Are there other web building programs that are also "What you see is what you get", but maybe has a little bit more than FrontPage? Thanks, Kathleen (in reply to Thomas Brunt)


Thomas Brunt Posts: 6210 Joined: 6/6/1998 From: St. Matthews SC USA Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 1/29/2009 10:37:43 Your web browser is the program you use. It's permanently on your hard drive. Better yet, you don't have to necessarily have your computer handy when you want to edit because most all computers have a web browser installed. t (in reply to bartnkat)


Mav44 Posts: 244 Joined: 6/25/2006 Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 3/25/2009 19:07:34 I guess this is the best place to ask a question about replacing FP. I have a copy of Dreamweaver 8 that I have been getting pretty good at but I see a lot of buzz about CS4 edition. Does anyone know if it is that much better? It would cost me about $200 to upgrade, I use a student version, and I want to make sure it is worth the jump. The changes with IE8 this week have made me realizie it is time to move on from FP. (in reply to Thomas Brunt)


jaybee Posts: 14523 Joined: 10/7/2003 From: Berkshire, UK Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 3/25/2009 19:20:54 Not unless you're intending doing it for a living and even then I'm not sure you need the upgrade. I doubt very much there is anything in there you'd find vital if you're moving from FrontPage. _____________________________ If it ain't broke..... fix it until it is. GAWDS Now where did I put that Doctype? (in reply to Mav44)


Mav44 Posts: 244 Joined: 6/25/2006 Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 3/25/2009 19:42:45 The adobe site stated one of the biggest advantages is the new "live View". Is this similar to wysiwyg option in FP? If it is, I could see this as a major upgrade and it would make the transition to Dramweaver a little easier. If it is just another "preview in browser" button I think I will save my $200. (in reply to jaybee)


TexasWebDevelopers Posts: 885 Joined: 2/22/2002 From: Dallas, TX Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 3/25/2009 23:07:21 CS4 is awesome and I wouldn't use anything else--I also wouldn't recommend it to many folks. CS4 is no different than notepad in that it is a tool - if you don't know the fundamentals of auto repair it doesn't matter if you have a garage full of the latest computerized tools because you wouldn't know what to do with them. Same goes for CS4. Buy a good book on CSS and use notepad instead. You'll code better and learn more and won't have to kick yourself for spending all that money on the garage full of tools you'll rarely, if ever, use. _____________________________ Follow us on TWITTER (in reply to Mav44)


Mav44 Posts: 244 Joined: 6/25/2006 Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 3/26/2009 0:29:01 I wouldn't consider myself a newbie as I have been using FP since 1996 and have done many web sites and written my fair-share of code. I go so far back my first sites were written in straight html using "Coffee Cup". I can write asp and html with the best of them. I understand most of the features of Dreamweaver 9 and I just wanted to know if the differences in CS4 justify the upgrade. I know it is time to change from FP but I just want to make sure I am using the most mainstream product out there that won't be phased out in two years. (in reply to TexasWebDevelopers)


Thomas Brunt Posts: 6210 Joined: 6/6/1998 From: St. Matthews SC USA Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 3/26/2009 7:48:20 The way to go for non-coders who want to produce original designs is http://artisteer.com. t (in reply to Mav44)


TexasWebDevelopers Posts: 885 Joined: 2/22/2002 From: Dallas, TX Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 3/26/2009 9:53:44 quote: the most mainstream product out there that won't be phased out in two years. Again, it's hands-down the best product with the advantage of similar and integrated user interfaces for photoshop, fireworks, flash, adobe air, and so on. Live view is a nece feature but I realy like the improved CSS features and code hinting for use with AJAX. Adobe is trying a BETA to integrate "InContext" editing into the program. Essentially you define editable regions that allow your users to edit the pages (for a fee paid to adobe) via their browser. Fee structure hasn't been determined yet but should be around $10-20 per month. A bit pricey since we give a CMS away with every website--perhaps if it catches on I can charge more! The artisteer template generator that Thomas mentioned is great for wordpress and joomla users but creates proprietary "projects" that are still quite buggy. Just changing a graphic header from their template examples to a custom header causes problems for some users (check out their forum). I believe (like Thomas, who will interject if I am mistaken) that the future of "common" web page creation are web-based applications that will combine design elements and functionality. However, we are already seeing a backlash against "software as service (SaaS)" among our high end clients who want secure control over their content and servers. Application programmers and developers like us will be around for a few more years. _____________________________ Follow us on TWITTER (in reply to Thomas Brunt)


Mav44 Posts: 244 Joined: 6/25/2006 Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 4/13/2009 0:42:21 I went with CS4 and I love it. I am learning more every day and my pages have never looked better. I just have to work on switching a few of my sites that rely on FP extensions. (in reply to TexasWebDevelopers)


bobby Posts: 11904 Joined: 8/15/1969 From: Seattle WA USA Status: offline	RE: FrontPage Alternative - 11/13/2009 17:52:30 quote: Open Source You don't want to tie yourself to technology that will be dead in a few years. Joomla!, Wordpress, and Linux are vibrant open source projects that will be around for a very long time. ... it warms the heart... _____________________________ Talk to your kittens about catnip, or someone else will. (in reply to Mav44)