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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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This is our "soon to be updated" site - 12/19/2001 23:38:08
deleted for brevity of thread. Regards, Scotty
Edited by - scotty on 04/24/2002 01:33:56
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 12/20/2001 23:36:44
To update and clarify my previous post; what I'd like some input on is the overall layout of the home page, www.loghomestore.com, (e.g. unreadable, too plain), and any thoughts on how to better list the products such as the books. Currently, one book page goes 40 books with 40 thumbnail pics. Regards, Scotty
Edited by - scotty on 04/25/2002 00:33:09
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garry
Posts: 858
From: Northern Territory Outback Australia
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 12/21/2001 0:29:00
Hi Scotty
Had a look around yesterday and you have a little monster.
Packed full of info.....and always a hard one to put into order.( I'm sure if I was looking for info I'd find it in your site)
1. Home page has several sized fonts...try a bit of standardization & something a bit more readable....verandah(is my choice).
2. a nice log home photo to go with the logo and place it all in an include page to go at the top of each page of your site. (many search engines will drop potential clients at many of your other pages, so first impressions count)
3. In your revamp...dont change the URLs.
4. The books page took a while to load up...however, that did not matter as there was content for me to peruse straight away and ALL those books are there in that same category...some pros and cons, but I will break with tradition and say it was good to look at the whole lot at once.
4.Home page...hmmm very noisy, and needs a good rework...and a navigation system!!! Currently need to return to home page each time.....maybe have a look around and check out some layouts.
Possibly a navigation table across the page with 10 main buttons/text ( as an include page) and insert them below your banner/header for ease of rebuild.
Make your own info the main central read, ie Monthly Holiday specials, newsletter, still looking, current events etc.
Good Luck
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 12/21/2001 0:55:42
Garry; Thanks for the input. I'm working on a rebuild that looks a bit like www.lehmans.com. Puts the navigation flags down the left side so you don't need to return to the home page. When I get a "test" up, I'll let you know. I'll be interested if you find it an improvement. Regards, scotty
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Bluey Zee
Posts: 105
From: Rutherglen Vic Australia
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 12/24/2001 7:32:31
Scotty,
Certainly a wealth of information but at 1024 x 768 I found the home page a bit hard to read - particularly the bold black text on the lighter blue background.
Rest of the pages were fine but rather busy which, given the volumes of content you have, is understandable.
Jim
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 12/24/2001 11:52:08
You know, I haven't bothered to look at the site in a higher resolution. Thanks for the input. I'll check the new one out prior to posting to see how it looks. Regards, Scotty
PS One of the upcoming "problem" I face with the site is a doubling of product content and backup data.
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Shamanusavet
Posts: 127
Joined: 12/16/2001
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/3/2002 23:05:36
Spent sometime on your site tonight. Log Structures have always been interesting to me. So much info on Home/Index page really had a hard time sorting things out. i read where you are working on it. So i am interested to see what direction you go in. Also, saw you have e-mail ordering for now. You might want to create a ordering form, when submitted is sent to you in e-mail. Any how good luck, we'll keep the light on for ya! the Shaman
the Shaman
http://shamans.home.att.net
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/6/2002 21:29:57
Good thought with the order form Shaman. What we have isn't much. We'll work on something easier to find and use. Regards, Scotty
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erinatkins
Posts: 3072
From: Mechanicsville VA USA
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/8/2002 8:49:14
Scotty,
On the right side - the fonts (caps/small letters) not being the same was a bit distracting.
The line that has Makita Tools-Timberframing tools - is underlined more than the others.
It also seems like the Lehman ad should be centered.
The site seems to have quite a bit of information. Over all a nice job.
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/9/2002 0:16:18
I've about beat myself up trying to center the Lehman's ad.
I'll check the font sizes etc. You're the second person to point out the lack of consistency and that means I'll finally get on it. Regards, Scotty
For those of you who want to watch me (sporatically) clean up the upgraded site in preparation for it's debut; you'll find it at 208.161.38.96. I haven't got the drop downs to load properly so that's what I'll next play with. The static links at the bottom of the pages are active for travelling around the site.
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Angelia
Posts: 15
Joined: 1/9/2002
From: Atlanta GA USA
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/9/2002 10:02:30
Scotty,
I looked at your site. I was overwhelmed by the content amount on the homepage. I didn't know where to start. Organization and consistency will make this a good site.
I liked your Lehman's ad at the bottom of the homepage. Are the pictures a video clip or film strip? How did you create it?
Thanks!
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/9/2002 11:53:38
Angelia; The Lehman ad is a banner ad they provide to their affiliates. www.lehmans.com. Regards, Scotty
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/19/2002 23:37:54
To update this thread. I now have two sites with the same basic product information. www.loghomestore.com and www.aloghomestore.com. The first is the original site. Simple so all browsers can view it, and easy for a novice to maintain. Gets pretty jumbled and needs some cleanup at the least. The other has the same info with the addition of some cascading style sheets and java script to give, (supposedly) dropdown menus to the product categories on the pole at the left.
I've quickly found out a couple of important items. One is UNIX servers are case sensitive. (I had a capitol "H" in the address of one of the gifs, no big deal in Front Page, wouldn't show on the server). The other I haven't found the answer to. Opening the browser through Front Page I get the drop down product menus to work fine. Publish to UNIX server, don't work. (although I'm not sure if I'm looking at the inoperable drop down list or the hidden static links underneath). Plus the "hidden" static product links don't seem to work either. (although I don't know how to check if these are working on my computer. Turn off Java Script so I can see what's underneath? How do I do that?).
For now I'll keep both sites up, with the traffic going to the original site.
This week we'll start to "play" with Commission Cart 2.0. It's a combination shopping cart/affiliate program. I'll keep you informed. Regards, Scotty
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/23/2002 1:17:40
We'll; we got the dhtml menus working on the new site. www.aloghomestore.com. As our server is UNIX it was a case sensitive issue. Basically a "d" should have been a "D" and an "i" should have been an "I".
As I "clean up" the new site in preparation for it's full release I find myself going back to clean up the original site. Go figure.
We've picked up the Commission Cart cgi-perl script shopping cart/affiliate program. The server side should be installed tonight. The rest will go slower as I've never worked with cgi scripts before. Won't this be fun.
Regards, Scotty
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in2golfz
Posts: 58
From: None
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/31/2002 10:16:50
Nice site
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I.M.Learning
Posts: 108
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: USA
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 1/31/2002 14:17:17
Scotty - like the redesigned site much better!! Good job!
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/19/2002 1:05:50
An update to our two sites.
The original www.loghomestore.com and the new site www.aloghomestore.com. www.aloghomestore.com. We got the shopping cart up and running. Even with the tech from the software company doing the basic install, and our web guy knowing cgi/perl scripting, this turned into a looong process. More than once we had to call the seller and request a reinstall. So, to compare our old site to the new. The old site, www.loghomestore.com is a no-brainer to maintain. Little to nothing goes wrong, easy to make changes and fairly fast. Any browser can read it. The new site, www.aloghomestore.com is classier, (I think), easier to navigate, more effective, with the shopping cart, at getting orders, and a general pain in the butt to maintain. Something is always going wrong. (and often, that "thing" is Front Page trying to get items to run the way it feels they should run. e.g. Front Page once took all the meta tags and reversed the order of name/description to description/name. Currently it has somehow inactivated all <a name="****">aaaaa</a> tags. They're still there, they just won't work. ((this is on my current desktop copy which I haven't loaded yet))). I would have to say, from my meager experience level of maybe an advanced beginner, that if I had it to do over I'd seriously consider a program other than Front Page. Be interesting to see my thought on this a year from now. Take a look. Let me know what you think and offer suggestions. Your thoughts are always appreciated. Regards, Scotty
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bushbaby
Posts: 141
From: Underground
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/19/2002 11:21:06
Hi Scotty,
I really like the new site design ... classy and easy to navigate. I particularly like the colour scheme. Very appropriate for the subject. You've obviously worked very hard on it. Congratulations.
Cheers,
Bushbaby
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Rangler
Posts: 294
From: Akron, Ohio
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/19/2002 12:09:16
Hi Scotty -
Being a log home fan and hoping to have one someday, I like your new site much better.
One change I would suggest is redo the longer sign at the top of the home page to include the Visa/MC logos. Right now, they seem a bit to cramped and kinda just hanging around. Also, try to center both signs.
I did checkout the shopping cart and it worked fine. I was able to add items and remove them without problems.
However, when I went to the checkout page, the Credit Card info was not being collected on a secure server (https). At this point, you would lose me as a customer. I am very picky about that and have abandoned orders from other sites for that reason and went elsewhere.
Rangler
Anyone know where I can get my black & white TV fixed?
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/19/2002 12:10:52
I may be completely off base here but just looking at things you said in your two mails above it occured to me that this might be something to do with the problems you are having.
You say:
quote:
Currently it has somehow inactivated all <a name="****">aaaaa</a> tags. They're still there, they just won't work.
And earlier you say:
quote:
One is UNIX servers are case sensitive. (I had a capitol "H" in the address of one of the gifs, no big deal in Front Page, wouldn't show on the server).
While it is true that unix servers are case sensitive it shouldn't matter if you are using the correct name for the image or page in the link.
The fact that you had a problem made me wonder how you are inserting the links and images. If you ALWAYS insert them by browsing to them and selecting them you should not have this problem.
If on the other hand you paste them in or write them in manually you may have problems.
The problems are not just associated with errors you may make when typing but also with the methods used by FP to keep everything in order. For example if you paste in links in normal view from one page to another it is quite common for FP to decide to reference them from your local computer. On the other hand if you create the links by right click>Insert or Edit Hyperlink there are no problems.
Same apples to images, it is always better to insert them by choosing Insert>Image or the toolbar short cut and browsing to them rather than pasting them in or even pasting them from one page to another. Pasting within the same page seems to be ok.
Maybe this is irrelevant, if so disregard it.
I also see the odd thing like this in your pages:
<a href="../../My%20Pictures/hdw0050roto%20max.JPG">
The %20's that are messing that up are space in you file names.
To keep things tidy and simple I would suggest the following:
- always use lower case in page and image names
- ever leave spaces in page or image names, so not "Image Name.jpeg", but "image_name.jpg".
Another thing I see is that you are sometimes referencing your cart with a relative URL - eg "/cgi-bin/cc/comcartp.pl" but sometimes with a full URL eg "http://www.aloghomestore.com/cgi-bin/cc/comcartp.pl"
Don't know if either are causing peoblems but if you are having a problem it is something to check.
On the drop down - do you mean the cascading menu on the left of the home page?
It seems to work ok mostly but for example if I click Wood Preservation on the home page it goes nowhere, I have to chose something from the drop out menu to move.
I found this confusing.
If I click Wood Cleaning and Restoration I see that there are infact a series of links to more wood cleaning products - but they do not look like links, they are in the same colour and weight as normal text and if you hadn't included a note that they are in fact links I would never have guessed. I think it would be far better to just make them look like links.
It was a very long time, even after the above before I registered that much of the stuff on the contents page was clickable. I thought, bcause of the note, that only the items in that section were. Links on this page should REALLY should look like links - make them underlined, make them do something on mouseover, encourage people to click them, as it is they might very well not know they can.
The new site is a great improvment but it is still not that easy to get around, you really do need to make this stuff a no brainer. I find it very confusing that when I click an item in the main menu I am taken to a contents page when I expect to go to a page all about the subject I clicked on - it also seems to me to just be adding an additional pointless click.
I would suggest that the main menu leads people directly to the relevant secion and that at the top of the page you include a text submenu. For example on the cleaning page you could have text links to all the different types of product above the page title. The pages are long too, so links at the end of each product to the top of the page - ie back to the menu - would be a good idea.
Just noticed that the text links at the bottom of each page also lead to the contents page - again they should lead to the main pages. Add a link to the contents to your menu, make the links in it clickable and it becomes an excellent means of secondary navigation, but as it is it is confusing more than anythng else.
From a usability point of view you need to be fairly careful about sending people to bookmarks low on pages, it makes them lose their bearings - they have no idea whether they are still on the page they started from or have gone elsewhere, and if elsehwere, where? and how to get to somewhere else?
Links from the main menu should especially always bring people to a clearly defined location - they should see familiar and comforting things like your header, a familiar menu, the name of the page they are now on. It makes them secure.
Your's is a really large site with an astinishing amount of content and that makes having a navigation system that is foolproof absolutely vital.
I hope you do not think I am being over critical - think of it as a sort of a usability test, I am your tester reporting the problems I had, and I did realy have them. The site is almost great - a little more thought for how users will navigate and how to make it easier for them will really make a fine job of it.
Katherine
++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Edited by - abbeyvet on 04/19/2002 12:19:06
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Shamanusavet
Posts: 127
Joined: 12/16/2001
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/19/2002 14:33:31
Scotty, WOW! What a improvement over the first site I looked at. Congrats to you and Good Luck with the Store!
the Shaman
http://shamansdesign.home.att.net
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/20/2002 11:00:35
A big "Thanks" for those that looked at the site and commented on it.
Rangler's comment that there is no "secure site" for credit card orders got me scrambling to find out if we left the secure certificate back on the prior server. (we moved to a new server last week).
Abbyvet's comment are fantastic, and ....depressing. I had just mentally upgraded myself from a Front Page beginner to a "advanced beginner". I think my personal advancement was a bit premature.
My current, immediate dilemma, has to do with changes to the site that I am ready to import to the server. I was doing a last check and find that none of the "<a" tags are working on my desktop copy. All the "bookmarks" are there, and all the "hyperlinks", they simply won't activate. (someone suggested I recalibrate my links). Anyone know how to do this and whether that might be the problem? Currently I'm scheduled with our web person to import my copy to the server on Monday and see if everything "magically" works. I'd prefer to fix it first. Thoughts? Regards, Scotty
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Dompros
Posts: 161
Joined: 2/14/2002
From: CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/20/2002 19:16:19
Scotty,
AllLog.com is for sale at Great Domains.
Looks like an excellent top level domain name, short, clear, easy to spell, to the point, and very appropriate.
Perhaps some of your members may be interested in that domain...
Regards, Robert
"Lung Tik Chuan Ren"
The sign of the Dragon
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/23/2002 1:39:53
To Abbeyvet, (Katherine), and others who have offered some great critiques, I thought I'd mention what advice I've taken, (to date). I renamed all pages and pics using no CAPS and no spaces; I've discussed how to properly load, save, import jpg and gif files, (I was getting the occassional address back to my desktop), I've passed on the thought about full vs. relative url for the shopping cart to the server administrator. Next I'll work on directing the hyperlinks at the botton of the page directly to the page, rather than to a contents page. (this was a quick "cheat" to get the site up, now it's time to clean it up). Regards, Scotty
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Light
Posts: 200
Joined: 3/28/2002
From: Earth
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/30/2002 13:47:44
Hi Scotty,
Very nice site,I viewed your site with IE text size LARGEST! have a look! something else I loved the menu can I get the codes? thanks
<%Thgil%>
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sspainhour
Posts: 30
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Borden IN USA
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 4/30/2002 15:28:31
I went to your site and it looked great. I even ordered some wash for my log home. Everything worked great with the online ordering except after submiting all of my information, it stated that the order would be shipped ups ground unless I specify otherwise in the comments, however, I didn't see a comments section on that page. Maybe you should have a question on the order sheet that list the shipping choices.
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 5/2/2002 0:23:25
Light: the menu program is an old version of hiermenu. You can find their stuff at http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/. I haven't looked at the newest version. The version we use seems to have problems aligning properly in both Netscape and Explorer.
FYI; Graeme Hackson in one of the posts recommended I try http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/hvmenu/index.htm. At first glance it appears easier to use and more compatable with older browser versions.
Regards, Scotty
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Scotty
Posts: 209
From: The left coast-go Obama-
Status: offline
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RE: This is our "soon to be updated" site - 5/24/2002 1:19:09
An update to the two competing sites, www.loghomestore.com (older site, no on-line ordering),and www.aloghomestore.com, (newer site, on-line ordering).
Rangler, earlier in the thread, mentioned the shopping cart on the newer site was unsecure. It took over a month to finally determine the original certificate was lost forever and a new one was purchased. Lesson learned. Back up ALL DATA prior to switching servers. Course this led to more checking to find a reinstall of the entire shopping cart and the autorespond system, (more $ each time), was needed. Need I say it again? Back up. . .
Think I got the problem fixed whereby Netscape 4+ wouldn't read the home page. (big deal, as I can't submit to Yahoo until I know it's working).
The cascading menu on the left of the pages. Going to change over to the one I mentioned earlier in the thread. It's easier to install, maintain and friendly to older to browser versions.
I continue to work on Katherines' suggestions. (I still pound my head against the wall over pics/images).
I'm also working on a "site map" to replace the contents page. This will help when we end up with dozens of technical data sheets available to download.
Suggestions always appreciated. These two sites pay our mortgage so I definetly listen when you speak.
Regards, Scotty
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Printable Version 
what a change since I last saw your site. Keep up the hard work! the Shaman 
