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SteveCrowther
Posts: 39
Joined: 2/26/2002
From: Aberystwyth & Kissimmee
Status: offline
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Size - How big is too big? - 3/2/2002 4:19:30
I have been having 'server time out errors' during 'processing updates' to a web site with 10.4 Mb of data in it.
Pages publish OK but the Navigation Bar (as Buttons) Structure does not display the text as I guess this is when FrontPage 2000 builds this data.
So, my question-
How big is too big in FrontPage 2000. Is there an actual limit to how big a web can be?
Total file size for web = 10.451 Mb. Navigation currently has 127 pages, some sections going 6 levels deep.
I have a lot more to ad to this site.
I followed earlier advice to make as much use of folders as possible.
Should I look into putting some of it to Sub-Webs? Are there pro's & con's?
Also - I have many, many folders within folders called _Overlay that contain hundreds (in total) of graphics. None are linked to the site. Can they be discarded?
Also folders called _Borders.
May FrontPage 2002 help? I have it but haven't yet implemented it….
Thanks for any replies.
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/2/2002 5:15:13
This is certainly not too big for FP. This site is maintained on FP and it would be many multiples of that in size.
I am not sure that there really is a size limit for an FP web, but as they grow doing something about organisation does pay dividends, if only for your own convenience.
First thing is that if you are using extensions I would just ignore all the additional files taht FP creates. They take up relatively little space, are needed and are best left alone. If you are not using FP extensions you do not actually need them.
I have never known FP to make a folder called _Overlay, but that is not to say it might not when using some feature I have never used. You say there are a lot of images in it that you are not linking to. Are these named the same as images you are using? Some FP folders contain files which share names with files you have created in the main part of the web, these are not the original files though and are not as large as them, they are conifguration files related to the originals.
The borders folders are not needed unless you are using shared borders.
Using subwebs can be a useful way of organising things but does have some drawbacks. Each subweb is a self contained unit, so it will not be able to use themes or include files from the main web for example. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on what you want to do.
For bits of the site, if there are any, that are essentially self contained units I would consider subwebs, otherwise just stick with folders.
I think the time out errors may have more to do with your server than with FP or anything inherently to do with your site. I am no expert on that, hang on till they start getting up in the States and someone will be along who knows more.
Katherine
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www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea
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SteveCrowther
Posts: 39
Joined: 2/26/2002
From: Aberystwyth & Kissimmee
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/2/2002 5:50:36
Thanks for the reply -
Think I may have 'sussed' the -overlay folder thing.
They seem to be graphics for the text that goes over the buttons in the navigation bar.names like car rental.htm_nav_kiss192010_vbtn.gif contain page name, Nav = Nav bar?, kiss192.com is a pointer to www.kissimmee-us192.com the actual domain name, and I guess 'vbtn' = vertican button.
But, the folder is not in every subdirectory.
I wonder if at some time the whole web has got corrupted or -
When linking to the site via the pointer, the server generates this alternative menu structure?
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paperfish
Posts: 184
From: None
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/3/2002 7:21:19
Dear Abbeyvet,
It is with the utmost respect for your contributions to this forum that I offer the following clarification. In your original reply you said:
Each subweb is a self contained unit, so it will not be able to use themes or include files from the main web for example.
You can include files from the root level of your web by using Server Side Includes. You cannot do this with the FP Include function - another good reason to use SSIs.
Regards
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/3/2002 7:40:44
You are absolutely right - I should have been more clear, whan I said 'includes' I meant the FP type.
The reason I assumed in this case that if includes were used they would be of this type was that, outside of FP, the term 'subweb' essentially has no meaning, it is just a subdirectory. However within FP it has a specific meaning, it is a self contained FP web, which can have its own navigation structure and FP includes but cannot share those of the parent web.
There are lots of cases where SSI are more flexible and in many ways superior to FP includes but in an already existing (and in this case quite large) web changing over to their use is not without problems. Not all hosts or platforms support thier use, pages must, in most cases, be changed so that they have an .shtml extension thus losing any SE listings for the previous ones and, not least, they require hand coding and are not automatically updated by FP in the way FP includes are when pages are moved about or copied.
I use SSI a lot, mainly in those webs that are likely to become large, where FP extenions are not being used or those I administer myself. In the case of smaller sites FP includes are quicker and handier. In the case of sites that will be administered by site owners using FP but who are not happy ever seeing code then I would, in general, also avoid SSI.
Katherine
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www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/3/2002 9:46:14
Hmmm, my FP Includes work in my sub webs and the includes reside in a sub-directory called navigation in my root web. Did I miss something?
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The Vampmaster
Posts: 31
From: Villa de las Flores Estado de Mexico Mexico
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/3/2002 12:20:09
Probably I'm coming late into this, since all that has to be said has been done so.
The _Border directory, is just for borders as you have stated, but if you are using the structure to create the navigation links (I dont do it any more since they trend to be messy) then you need to keep the folder even if empty.
The _overlay, is the folder where the actual graphics are saved for the navigation, leave it as it is.
The problem I have encountered with the sub webs, is that if a novice, publish only the subweb, at times it trends to mess the fp extensions on the main site.
Finally I have also had that server time out errors, and it was toward space from my web hosting service. You see that a site of 10.4 mb, at the moment of being published causes up to two more times the usage in temporary files, so at any time you can end up with a 31.2 meg site. Then I'm sure you have noticed at the end it reads "Processing the Updates to the site", at that point it deletes all the temporary files, leaving only the 10.4 meg site.
If you have for instance a 20 meg account, then that is the problem.
Also some servers, have a limit on the bandwith a site can use, and multiple updatings may cause you to use the maximum per day, causing this kind of errors.
Just my 2 cents.
Sincerely
The Vampmaster
The Vampmaster
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puiwaihin
Posts: 1378
From: Taiwan
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/4/2002 12:58:21
If this is a recurring problem, try talking to your host. It may be that your server was busy when you were trying to publish and just continued to time out. If it happens all the time, though, maybe your server's administrator needs to increase the time before a timeout for you.
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Who put the self-destruct button THERE?!
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caywind
Posts: 1479
From: USA
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/4/2002 13:23:41
Can we see the site? Also, why aren't you working "live"? After the initial "publish" the "processing updates" thing is gone, and although the load time in slows, it is nothing like "publishing" where everything is evaluated and calculated, extrapolated, etcetera,
quote:
FrontPage Live
There are two ways to work in FrontPage. I’m on version 2000…
1. Working on a “disk based web”. This means that you are working from your hard drive. Once the web is ready to be launched, you Publish or Transfer the files using FTP.
2. Working on a “server-based web”. This means that you have a direct connection to an web server that has the FrontPage extensions set-up for your web. This is what people are talking about when they say editing the web “live”. Changes to the web take effect immediately upon saving.
To work on a web “live”. Go to File—Open Web… In the dialog box near the bottom is the line that says “Folder name: ” type your URL here, like this; http://www.nnnnnn.com, where nnnnn is your domain name. If the extensions are working then you get asked for user name and password, and another beautiful website begins…
<spellcheck> </spellcheck>
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SteveCrowther
Posts: 39
Joined: 2/26/2002
From: Aberystwyth & Kissimmee
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/4/2002 13:33:36
Caywind
URL is www.kissimmee-us192.com
Are you saying I should work on the site 'live'?
Seems a bit risky to me... Well actually, a lot risky.
Would I then backup by publishing it back to my loacl disk?
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puiwaihin
Posts: 1378
From: Taiwan
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/4/2002 13:36:55
Steve, alot of people will agree with you that working live can be risky. But, there may be a benefit of publishing from your site to your hard drive at least once. Might clear things up so that when you go the other direction it won't time out.
Just don't overwrite the changes you just made.
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Who put the self-destruct button THERE?!
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PBailey
Posts: 907
From: San Antonio, Texas USA
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/4/2002 15:45:52
Caywind,
Could you explain a little further? I very seldom work live. I thought that was one of the benifits of FP publishing. Make changes on the web on the HD and then publish. Now I'm confused.
I did make a few changes live last week and each time I went to a different page I had to re-enter my name and password. Is that normal.
Thanks,
Paula
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The Vampmaster
Posts: 31
From: Villa de las Flores Estado de Mexico Mexico
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/4/2002 18:57:25
I know for a fact that:
A) It's very tempting working "LIVE".
B) When you make a mistake sometimes you realize AFTER you have updated your site in your HD, and LIVE.
I must agree one of my five top 5 reasons to work FP, is that I can update on HD and later on the site.
The Vampmaster
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Reflect
Posts: 4769
From: USA
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/5/2002 8:00:45
If you do work "live" please use caution. The only problem I had doing a site that way was a server crash. My last publish to my HD was weeks prior. Lesson learned the hard way. I would heartily suggest that if you do you make it a habit to publish down to your PC at least every other change.
Brian
Work hard, play fair, stay sane
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PBailey
Posts: 907
From: San Antonio, Texas USA
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/5/2002 16:53:30
I also do the backup.
quote:
The password thing is an error in authentication somewhere and needs to be fixed by the ISP. That is not normal.
Thanks Caywind. I'll contact them.
Edited by - PBailey on 03/05/2002 16:54:59
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Charles W Davis
Posts: 1725
Joined: 3/7/2002
From: Henderson Nevada USA
Status: offline
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RE: Size - How big is too big? - 3/7/2002 0:16:57
No one that I noticed mentioned that your host company may have you set at a 10MB size. Some require extra hosting fees for the excess. I have bumped into that barrier with similar results.
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