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gatorman71
Posts: 4
From: Oviedo, FL
Status: offline
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Underlined links - 4/13/2002 12:13:06
Is there a way to make links not underline, without making them images?
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EWD
Posts: 1052
From: BeauFlow, NY
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/13/2002 12:21:51
Yes. Inside the head tags, put:
<style>
<!--
a:link {text-decoration:none;}
a:visited {text-decoration:none;}
a:active {text-decoration:none;}
a:hover {text-decoration:none;}
-->
</style>
For more on CSS (cascading style sheets) check out the tutorials from the link at the very top of this page.
Edited by - EWD on 04/13/2002 12:23:05
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Momx4
Posts: 204
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Seattle Area
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RE: Underlined links - 4/13/2002 12:45:58
Cool. I was looking for this also.
Is there a way to you can have the color change the text when the mouse moves over the Un-underlined hyperlink?
Thanks, MomX4
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/13/2002 13:04:23
Yes.
Amend the above to:
<style>
<!--
a:link {text-decoration:none; color:#000000;}
a:visited {text-decoration:none; color:#000099;}
a:active {text-decoration:none; color:#000066;}
a:hover {text-decoration:none; color:#000033;}
-->
</style>
Youcan change the colors for each hyperlink state to suit yourself.
Katherine
++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
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Momx4
Posts: 204
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Seattle Area
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/13/2002 13:21:54
Thanks, This sounds fun. I haven't done much code changing, but I'm up for the challenge. This might temperarily solve my WordArt-Hyperlink problem (other post). Is there some chart or something that tells what code is for what color?
Thanks a lot, MomX4
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Momx4
Posts: 204
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Seattle Area
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/13/2002 22:10:39
WOW, very cool. Thanks, MomX4
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 2:39:09
Okay, all this may sound really cool, but let me forewarn you. There have been many usability studies done on the web. One of those studies has to do with hyperlinks being underlined or not underlined.
The study concluded that hyperlinks without underlines were less likely to be clicked or noticed than those with underlines.
The web is built on hyperlinks. There are many who do not know what a hyperlink is, but they do know that if text is underlined, it usually means they can click it and go somewhere else (layman's terms).
Don't expect your average user to know that there are hyperlinks there without underlines. It just won't happen. And, if you make the links the same color of your body text, you've just alienated 70-80% of your audience. Even I won't know there is a link there unless I pass my cursor over it, which I usually don't make a practice of.
Leave the underlines on your link: and visited: attributes. This way returning visitors who have visited before and still have cache, will know where the links are. The only ones I take the underline off of is the hover: and active: attributes.
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Edited by - pageoneresults on 04/14/2002 02:50:08
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 2:45:57
Please let me add another bit of advice. I used to specify that my visited links turn to a dark shade of gray so visitors knew they had been there, done that.
The main problem with this design technique, is that my returning visitors who have not cleared their Internet History will not see the active link color. The active link color is much more appealing than the visited link color and completes the overall look and feel of the site.
Here is what my current CSS looks like for controlling the four states of the hyperlink. Please keep in mind that the hover: attribute does not work in NN4.x.
a:link{
text-decoration:underline;
color:#3366cc;
background:transparent;
}
a:visited{
text-decoration:underline;
color:#3366cc;
background:transparent;
}
a:hover{
text-decoration:none;
color:#6699ff;
background:transparent;
}
a:active{
text-decoration:none;
color:#ff0000;
background:transparent;
}
Notice that my link: and visited: are the same. This way my returning visitors see the links in their true color. Yes, I've lost that added touch of showing them where they've visited, but I'd rather have them see the link: color.
I know, I could probably use a no cache tag to prevent this from happening. Just haven't looked at that option yet. I really don't want to occupy that valuable real estate in my <head></head> section!
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 2:51:44
Very important note...
You must put the link attributes in this order...
link:
visited:
hover:
active:
There is an inheritance factor involved with these attributes and if the active: comes before hover: the active: will not work.
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 9:23:46
I agree absolutely with what you say about non-underlined links from a usability viewpoint but it doesn't necessarily mean there is no place for non underlined link text.
For example I frequently use text links in a navigation bar, not underlined, not changing color when visited, only the hover state used. Sometimes these are in a table with a background image, giving an illusion of buttons.
This is a quite different situation and when links are arranged in a position and manner that is recognisably a navigation bar I do not think that the general usability warning about removing underlines on links applies.
Another situation is where the hover state of a normal body link loses its underline as well, possibly, as changing color. I think this is quite acceptable from any point of view.
I am a great advocate of taking time and effort to improve the usability of sites. One thing I have learned in reading about and thrying to the best of my ability to practice it is that there are few hard and fast rules. Another thing is that there are balances to be acheived. This is a commercial world, clients often want stuff that is not necessarily perfect from a usability (or any other) point of view. All I can do is explain the implications and then do what they want done. If having explained the implications of removing underlines from body hyperlinks my client still wants to pay me to remove them, I will take the money and write the code.
Katherine
++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Edited by - abbeyvet on 04/14/2002 09:36:04
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 13:27:01
Hi abbeyvet, I agree with you 100%. You said...
> For example I frequently use text links in a navigation bar, not underlined, not changing color when visited, only the hover state used. Sometimes these are in a table with a background image, giving an illusion of buttons.
There are many instances where the underline can be removed. I was referring mostly to text that resides in body copy. I've seen people remove the underlines and make the link the same color as the text! Definitely creates a usability issue!
About the clients wants when it comes to site development. I usually have enough backup documentation to dispute almost every want that they have that does not fall within general web site design practices. I'm a little more direct with my approach and tell em' like it is. If they insist that I do something I know is wrong, I just won't do it! Usually (9.9 out of 10) times my clients are referred to me. My reputation has kind of preceded me and they know what they are in for!
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 13:46:05
quote:
If they insist that I do something I know is wrong, I just won't do it!
In my experience only about 10% of these issues fall into the clearly right or wrong category. Most are in various shades of grey. Like it or not there is often room for opinion and, however much more than them we know, the sites we build for clients are their sites, not ours, and therfore their opinions counts. Quite a lot actually.
For example I have made sites with patterned backgrounds which renders text hard to read, with poorly contrasting text on a colored bg which has the same effect, with pop ups, pop unders, no right click, pointless java applets, pointless splash pages, frames when there was no good reason for them and, yes, non underlined body links.
On every one of these occasions I have pointed out to my client in some detail the error of their ways as I saw it, so on each occasion where they chose to preceed they did so in full knowledge of the implications of what they were doing.
We have a different attitude and that's fine, each to their own. Most of my clients are also referred to me, so they too know what to expect. I have made lots of sites that, frankly, I hate. But their owner's love them and are happy clients who come to me with repeat business and send their friends. I don't put those sites in my portfolio, but my attitude is that, at the end of the day, the client is the boss, I am no more than a hired hand. I can provide knowledge and expertise they do not have, they pay me to deploy that knowledge and expertise in their service, and that is what I do, even if I am not making the site I would if I was left to my own devices.
Katherine
++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
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Momx4
Posts: 204
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Seattle Area
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 13:52:00
Thanks abbeyvet and pageoneresults for the dialogue. It is very informative. I really appreciate both of your points of view. I actually have two "remove underlines on hyperlink" things I wanted to do on my home page and you have got me thinking about the Usability issues.
THANKS. MomX4
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 14:12:29
Hi abbeyvet! I know what you are saying, the client is always right. But, I've changed my method of thinking when it comes to that phrase. The client is not always right and it is my responsibility to show them the correct way.
If you are building little mom and pop personal sites, anything goes! I won't touch them, not my style! All of my sites are business sites and there are a general set of rules that apply. In the past three years, I've fired three clients that came to me for web site design. All three were of the mindset that they could do what they wanted on the web. Not!
I would never, ever, ever allow this to happen...
> For example I have made sites with patterned backgrounds which renders text hard to read, with poorly contrasting text on a colored bg which has the same effect, with pop ups, pop unders, no right click, pointless java applets, pointless splash pages, frames when there was no good reason for them and, yes, non underlined body links.
Why? Because I would be doing the client a disservice if I did. I know from over seven years of surfing, studying, researching, implementing and through trial and error that these design techniques do not work!
I made it a point four years ago that I would not allow my clients to convince me to incorporate techniques that I know are not accepted in the design community.
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 14:25:59
As I say, we have a different attitude to our relationship with cliets.
I advise my clients against anything I feel is wrong, usually very strongly and with a detailed explanation of why it is wrong. Most of the time, in the vast, vast, majority of cases, they take that advice.
But if they do not, provided they are ok people to deal with and are likely to pay I will continue to work for them.
quote:
Why? Because I would be doing the client a disservice if I did. I know from over seven years of surfing, studying, researching, implementing and through trial and error that these design techniques do not work!
Why?
Becasue the client wants it, in spite of knowledge they have been given to the contrary. And who am I to say what 'works' for the client. I created a truely horrible site for a local guest house. Tacky pattern, awful layout, huge images, slow pages. I didn't enjoy making it much but I did enjoy the client's delight in the result, she just adored it. Two years later and more than 80% of her bookings, to my great surprise, come via that horrible site.
Who the hell knows why? Who can say, for sure, what will work.
Katherine
++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
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Momx4
Posts: 204
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Seattle Area
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/14/2002 19:35:27
Taking all things (in this post - above)into consideration, can you use the <style> codes given at the begining of this post if you have a THEME applied to your site?
Thanks, MomX4
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enrightd
Posts: 1034
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Rock Hill SC USA
Status: offline
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RE: Underlined links - 4/15/2002 15:42:37
Thanks Katherine.
My site has a Text Navigation Table at Top and Bottom with not underline or color change. I think it look fine and fits the character of the site.
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