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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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What's an include page? - 5/4/2002 9:11:41
I really wish I could be annoymous on this question because it's probably so fundamental that I should understand and know the answer already. But I honestly don't.
I've done a search here, and via FrontPage 2002 help, but can't find anything that fully explains what an "include page" is. The term is used in these forums and, with the little that I can surmise about it on my own, I think it's a time-saving feature I'd like to use.
Thanks, gail
Edited by - gail on 05/04/2002 09:14:21
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/4/2002 11:24:25
Yes, you will want to use them!! And it is really easy once you figure it out.
What an include page is, basically, is a page in your web which you can add into any or all other pages. Then, if you make a change in the include page, that change will be reflected in all the other pages.
Common uses include navigation bars, so that you only have to edit one page to change the navigation bar on all pages of your site, footer information, headers or pages if these are all the same.
For include pages to work your page must be laid out in tables, since the included page is added to a table cell.
Include pages work best where you create a site from a template. So say you are startng a new site. You would create a template to be used on all pages, pop in include pages for those elements that will be same on all pages and then save the template. Now each time you need a new page just open the template, save it as a new name and all you need to do is add content.
This image may make it clearer:
![]("http://www.inkkdesign.com/of/tableex.gif")
On how to insert them, just place your cursor in the place you want to add an include, click from the menu bar: Insert>Component>Include Page and browse to the file you want to include.
There is more detail here: http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/fp_techniques/global_elements.htm
It does take a bit of getting used to to lay out the pages and the includes so that they slot together nicely. But it is well worth the effort.
Here is an example from a real page, which may help:
look at this page:
http://www.irelandescorted.com/about.htm
It has the following includes, with a link to each on their own:
1. The header: http://www.irelandescorted.com/includes/header.htm
2. Left Navigation: http://www.irelandescorted.com/includes/navbar.htm
3. Contact Info: http://www.irelandescorted.com/includes/address.htm
4. Footer: http://www.irelandescorted.com/includes/footer.htm
You will see that some of these pages look odd on their own, but when they are inserted onto the background color of the final pages, or restricted by the width of the cell they are added to, they look fine.
Get to know includes, they will be your best friend!!
Katherine
++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
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EWD
Posts: 1052
From: BeauFlow, NY
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/4/2002 11:25:18
Hi Gail - You're right, you will love using includes - such a time saver! Have you used shared borders? Includes are a "global element" which means you insert the same file (the include file) on every page, and whatever is in that file will display. I use several on every site for header, navigation, footer, and contact block. I make a folder called _includes and in that folder I put four files: header.htm, footer.htm, etc. The header has just the logo or whatever I want at the top of every page. The footer.htm file has copyright, and any graphic that I want at the bottom of every page. The nav.htm file has my sitewide navigation.
Now I start building my regular site pages. I start at the top f the index.html page by doing insert > component > include page, then select _includes/header.htm. I continue building the page and insert the other include pages as I go. The I do save as to make more pages, using the index page as my template. Partway through, I invariably think of something I should have put in the header, so I open _includes/header.htm and add it, and the change is reflected on all the pages. Cool, huh?
More about it here: http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/fp_techniques/global_elements.htm
Post with more questions if you have them.
"My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green
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PBailey
Posts: 907
From: San Antonio, Texas USA
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/5/2002 3:47:32
quote:
Keep in mind that if you're making a new site once you have your first page laid out as desired, with includes added, then you can save it as template.htm and use that as a starting point for the rest of your pages. Just open that page and "save as" pagename.htm.
Glad this came up again. I use includes all the time now but when I try to the above and then open the template I have the include path showing. Sometimes when I save the page the include doesn not come in. Any idea what I might be doing wrong.
Thanks,
Paula
So much to learn......
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pageoneresults
Posts: 1001
From: Orange, CA USA
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/5/2002 3:52:44
> Sometimes when I save the page the include doesn not come in. Any idea what I might be doing wrong.
Hi PBailey! Double click on the include tag that you see in Normal View. This will bring up a browse dialog box. Locate the include and press okay. This will relink the file with the proper path. Sometimes the includes lose their link when you are saving to different level directories.
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PBailey
Posts: 907
From: San Antonio, Texas USA
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/5/2002 4:18:26
Thanks Pageoneresults. That sounds somewhat easier then I have been doing which is deleting the path then going into the includes folder and entering it again.
Paula
So much to learn......
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/5/2002 10:10:09
quote:
I predict you'll have that "Aha!" moment about 10:00PM Sunday and will be up til 3:00AM implementing your new knowledge!
Am embarrassed to say you were pretty darn close! <lol>
quote:
More about it here: http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/fp_techniques/global_elements.htm
What wonderful discoveries!(*)
Am I excited! Please tell me if I did this right.
I want copyright information at the bottom of each page in a website. I originally inserted the info by using a variable but when inserted, it was not formatted.
So I made a separate web page, inserted the copyright variable and formatted it on the page. Then I inserted the copyright page in other pages.
I placed the cursor and inserted where I wanted the info (it is only one line of text). I didn't create a cell or table before inserting. Should I have?
Gail
(*) I spent a good bundle of change taking beginning, intermediate and allegedly advanced FrontPage classes and they never even mentioned these things. Sorta makes you <fuming> mad!
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EWD
Posts: 1052
From: BeauFlow, NY
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/5/2002 12:32:25
Hi Gail! Glad you're getting the picture! I recommend (as did Katherine) putting the include in a table cell on the page that uses it. I have found that if I set the include to be centered, it seemed to show up first at the left, then scoot over as the page loaded. Looked kinda strange. Calling it into a table cell instead puts it in the right space at the first.
As to the formatting: If you use CSS on the main page it will also control the include when the main page loads. Remember: only the information between the BODY tags of the include file gets called to the main page.
"My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green
Edited by - EWD on 05/05/2002 12:33:33
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/7/2002 20:14:07
quote:
Yes, you will want to use them!! And it is really easy once you figure it out.
I'm in love...with include pages and variables!
quote:
look at this page:
http://www.irelandescorted.com/about.htm
I did. One of the most delightful sites I've ever seen.
_gail
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/9/2002 9:10:52
Couple of questions...
quote:
Include pages work best where you create a site from a template.
When you say "work best" are you referring to efficiency or functionality?
Also, what about basic formatting? For example, if I want the contents of an include page to be flush-right in all cells where it will be inserted, is it better to flush-right it on the include page or set individual cell(s)?
Katherine, regarding you table illustration: When I studied this in class, the instructor only mentioned creating a page layout using Front Page's "Insert table" command. He would have had us create your table in this manner:
Make a 3x2 table, then merge the top and bottom cells.
You, on the other hand, make three tables with the center one having two cells.
I often become exceedingly frustrated when I try to gain control of a page for graphic and text insertion. I've been using the instructor's method but the more complicated a page becomes, the more I lose control of where I want my cursor to go. I eventually get most of it to work, but not without wasting a lot of time.
Am I correct in the assumption that I'm being plagued by this problem because I should, in fact, be using more tables rather than one multi-celled table?
Thanks, _gail
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/9/2002 9:13:13
quote:
Couple of questions...
quote:
Include pages work best where you create a site from a template.
When you say "work best" are you referring to efficiency or functionality?
Also, what about basic formatting? For example, if I want the contents of an include page to be flush-right in all cells where it will be inserted, is it better to flush-right it on the include page or set individual cell(s)?
Katherine, regarding your table illustration: When I studied this in class, the instructor only mentioned creating a page layout using Front Page's "Insert table" command. He would have had us create your table in this manner:
Make a 3x2 table, then merge the top and bottom cells.
You, on the other hand, make three tables with the center one having two cells.
I often become exceedingly frustrated when I try to gain control of a page for graphic and text insertion. I've been using the instructor's method but the more complicated a page becomes, the more I lose control of where I want my cursor to go. I eventually get most of it to work, but not without wasting a lot of time.
Am I correct in the assumption that I'm being plagued by this problem because I should, in fact, be using more tables rather than one multi-celled table?
Thanks, _gail
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/9/2002 12:01:34
When I referred to 'working best' I meant from the viewpoint of efficiency really. The thing is that you can, by using this method, make your entire site by just creating one page, with all the includes for the repeating elements in place. Even if you add a whole new section that requires a major change in navigation it is not a problem because you can just change the single include page containing the navigation bar and your entire site is updated.
On the tables. I think I think your tutor was wrong and that trying to create an entire page with anything other that the absolute simplest of layouts in a single table is very difficult. I certainly find it much easier to stack tables, nest them, and even stack the nested ones to have more precise control.
It is a good idea to avoid nesting tables too deep, but it is rarely necessary anyway if you are careful about how you organise things at the outset.
What I usually do is make the page, navigation, headers, footers, the lot, in one page. Then I careful copy the code for headers, footers, navigation, breakout boxes etc and put each in their own file. The delet them form the template page and replace with the relevant include. I would put the table structure into the include also - so that for example the entire header section, including the table that holds it, would be an include file.
There are two pages here - well, one really in one version the borders of all tables are visible and in the other they are set to zero. They may further clarify.
http://www.inkkdesign.com/of/layout1.htm
http://www.inkkdesign.com/of/layout2.htm
Katherine
++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com
Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
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EWD
Posts: 1052
From: BeauFlow, NY
Status: offline
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RE: What's an include page? - 5/9/2002 18:02:55
quote:
Am I correct in the assumption that I'm being plagued by this problem because I should, in fact, be using more tables rather than one multi-celled table?
It's definitely better to "stack" tables one on top of the other rather than making one huge table for the entire page. When the browser parses your html, it has to render a table in it's entirety before it can display any of it. If your header is one table, it will display, then the center section table then the footer, giving the appearance of a faster loading page. It also makes it much simpler for you to manage each section.
"My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green
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GTT
Posts: 16
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline
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RE: What' s an include page? - 9/30/2002 17:23:23
Hey guys,
I' m new. So waite a sec... let me get something straight. Is an Include page also a Shared Border? Whats the difference? I' m currently using shared borders right now, but from what I keep on reading from the post, the include sounds like the same thing, but with a function i' m currently looking for. So whats the general difference?
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EWD
Posts: 1052
From: BeauFlow, NY
Status: offline
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RE: What' s an include page? - 9/30/2002 17:42:23
Yes, I believe you could call an include into a shared border, but since I' ve never tried this I' m not sure. Unless you have a huge site, I would recommend dumpung the shared borders and going with the includes instead. All I can suggest is that you try it and see if it works. I guarantee in the process you' ll learn a helluva lot of new stuff!
_____________________________
" I came here to ponder the futility of it all but I can see it' s useless."
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GTT
Posts: 16
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline
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RE: What' s an include page? - 9/30/2002 17:58:21
Hey, actually.. I do kind of have a lot of pages. That' s why I don' t want to ditch all of the shared borders. And on top of that, I don' t want to end up ruining all of my shared borders by experimenting you know? But i' ll try it. I' ll copy the borders and work on a backup so that if something happens, nothing will happen to my real stuff. Anyway, thanks... and wish me luck. I hope this works.[:p]
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Charles W Davis
Posts: 1725
Joined: 3/7/2002
From: Henderson Nevada USA
Status: offline
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RE: What' s an include page? - 10/1/2002 22:25:47
GTT,
I use an includes file in the left shared border at: http://www.anthemwebs.com
In fact the includes file is a form. It works.
_____________________________
Enjoy! It' s your endeavor!
http://www.anthemwebs.com
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Printable Version 
I figured as I was writing my message that there would likely be several posts all at once - testament to the popularity of includes! 
