What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (Full Version)

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hzarabet -> What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/9/2002 21:27:31)

What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY? If I convert a directory to a subweb, what effect will it have on my site?

I need to use Spooky login independently in two areas of my website. Both of these areas are now in their own directories. If I convert these directories to subwebs, I can accomplish my goal with Spooky Login. But I am afraid what this change will do to my site.

Thanks all

http://www.SigningsHotline.com lists EVERY upcoming athlete autograph appearance in the US and Canada



bnavis -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/9/2002 22:44:12)

I am sure there is a much better explaination out there, but when you make a subweb in your web, FP creates individual folders for that web as it did for your original web. Ex: _private, images, etc.

As a result, you can also apply a different theme to a subweb without changing the theme for the entire web.

Someone please give a more educated answer. I did my best.



"To start, press any key. Where's the ANY key?" Homer Simpson



EWD -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 0:41:27)

Subwebs can be published independently of your main web or with it (check include subwebs). If you convert folders to subwebs they will no longer have access to any images, includes, etc from your main web so you will have to duplicate them in the subweb.

Who's next?

"My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green



paperfish -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 6:09:19)

Subwebs can use Includes from the root level of your web if you use Server Side Includes instead of FP Includes.

 



_gail -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 8:48:57)

quote:

Subwebs can use Includes from the root level of your web if you use Server Side Includes instead of FP Includes.



So, are you going leave some of us less informed folk hanging as to the difference between Server Side and FP includes?!

I just learned about includes but didn't know there were two of them!

Thanks, gail

Edited by - _gail on 05/10/2002 09:10:55



Gil -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 9:22:38)

quote:


So, are you going leave some of us less informed folk hanging as to the difference between Server Side and FP includes?!

I just learned about includes but didn't know there were two of them!





Having never tried a "FP Include", but using SSI for the past 9 - 10 years, I see "FP" includes as another MS attempt to remake a standard/open source technoligy into another MS proprietary function in order to further handcuff people to them. I really can't say what the "functional" diifferences are.

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hzarabet -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 11:13:37)

So am I understanding correctly that I can change one of my currect directories, a VERY IMPORTANT directory at that, into a subweb with NO difference as to hyperlinking or anything else that may affect my users?

BTW, I use includes, not the FP version.

http://www.SigningsHotline.com lists EVERY upcoming athlete autograph appearance in the US and Canada



DarlingBri -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 11:51:45)

I'm confused. I use the Spooky Login, and it's just running in a regular folder off my root. No subweb required. Why can't you do that?

Gil, if you have not tried it, you're really not in a position to knock it. The advantage is that the includes appear on the page in question, so you're still working in WYSIWYG. It's not the spawn of Satan.

--Bri
-----
#!usr/bin/girl



hzarabet -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 11:55:05)

quote:

I'm confused. I use the Spooky Login, and it's just running in a regular folder off my root. No subweb required. Why can't you do that?
--Bri
-----
#!usr/bin/girl


I am running two seperate areas on my site that are for 2 completely different set of users. But they may overlap as well. Two seperate logins running on the site would be harder to set up, but easier in the long run.

http://www.SigningsHotline.com lists EVERY upcoming athlete autograph appearance in the US and Canada



Gil -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 11:59:58)

quote:

I'm confused. I use the Spooky Login, and it's just running in a regular folder off my root. No subweb required. Why can't you do that?

Gil, if you have not tried it, you're really not in a position to knock it. The advantage is that the includes appear on the page in question, so you're still working in WYSIWYG. It's not the spawn of Satan.



I was not knocking FP includes - just MS's motives I'm not sure if I agrre are not about it not being "the spawn of Satan"

I guess it might be helpful to "see" an included file in WYSIWYG, I have got in the habit of publishing to my development server with each change and turning my head 15% to see it.

Gil Harvey
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caywind -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 14:07:36)

includes includes includes

I think they're all the same, only FP doesn't give you all of the options that SSI does (it's a lot). I have a question about includes.

Includes are supposed to be "Server Intensive". It takes an extra server access to display a page that has an include. If I use the same include on many pages (ie contact info) does it still require a seperate server access or does the include get pulled from the cache, after the first access to the site?

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Gil -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 14:57:09)

quote:

includes includes includes

I think they're all the same, only FP doesn't give you all of the options that SSI does (it's a lot). I have a question about includes.

Includes are supposed to be "Server Intensive". It takes an extra server access to display a page that has an include. If I use the same include on many pages (ie contact info) does it still require a seperate server access or does the include get pulled from the cache, after the first access to the site?


Apache will use cache, not sure about IIS

Gil Harvey
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EWD -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 15:25:09)

FP includes can be on a page with an htm or html filename extension, don't require shtml filename extension and don't require SSI to be enabled on your server. (Don't know why, but not all hosts provide that support).

"My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green



Gil -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 16:31:54)

quote:

FP includes can be on a page with an htm or html filename extension, don't require shtml filename extension and don't require SSI to be enabled on your server. (Don't know why, but not all hosts provide that support).
"

Really? Why would a host not have SSI enabled? Hmmm.

True about the naming, never saw that as a problem, just type an extra character



Gil Harvey
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hzarabet -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/10/2002 17:38:39)

Hmmmm....excuse me but.....


So am I understanding correctly that I can change one of my currect directories, a VERY IMPORTANT directory at that, into a subweb with NO difference as to hyperlinking or anything else that may affect my users?

BTW, I use includes, not the FP version.


http://www.SigningsHotline.com lists EVERY upcoming athlete autograph appearance in the US and Canada



paperfish -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/12/2002 10:13:26)

hzarabet,
Sorry, I don't know if you can convert a directory into a subweb without any problems.

caywind,
According to the IT folks here, IIS caches as well.

EWD,
I was told that the server had to FP extensions installed in order to use FP Includes. Is this the case?

 



EWD -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/12/2002 10:35:53)

To my knowledge FP includes will work without extensions but I have never tried it.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q143101

"My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green



_gail -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/12/2002 18:40:45)

Sorry ladies and gents to insert such a question into this discussion. This stuff is way over my head but I'd like to attempt to understand at least part of it.

Can someone please provide a link to web which has a subweb in it; and also provide the link to the subweb? I'm interested in what the address looks like. Maybe something will click.

quote:
Having never tried a "FP Include", but using SSI


Unless I'm talking about something entirely different, I'm still not clear abut what a SSI is.

Thanks, gail



Edited by - _gail on 05/12/2002 18:41:19



Gil -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/12/2002 20:23:52)

quote:

Sorry ladies and gents to insert such a question into this discussion. This stuff is way over my head but I'd like to attempt to understand at least part of it.

Can someone please provide a link to web which has a subweb in it; and also provide the link to the subweb? I'm interested in what the address looks like. Maybe something will click.


Well, a little explanation first: A "sub web" and a Directory are the same thing. Just MS (for some strange reason) decided to come up with a different name.

The address to a sub web or a directory under the root of any site would be something like: http://www.old-hippy.com/chat/
quote:



Unless I'm talking about something entirely different, I'm still not clear abut what a SSI is.



SSI is "Server Side Includes" a way of including content "in" a HTML page. The included page can be a .txt page - I believe FP includes require a HTML (or HTM in MS speak) page? I normally use .txt pages so they will not show in a browser unless they are within the page they belong in.

Gil Harvey
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_gail -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/13/2002 15:19:04)

quote:
Well, a little explanation first: A "sub web" and a Directory are the same thing.

The address to a sub web or a directory under the root of any site would be something like: http://www.old-hippy.com/chat/



Thanks, Gil

So it would be at the same domain, but independent of the main (root) web?

So I could have two separate webs without having two different domains, correct?

I guess my only other inquiry would be to ask if there are any cons of using a subweb?

Again, thanks. Gail





Edited by - _gail on 05/13/2002 15:19:32



Gil -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/13/2002 15:34:25)

quote:


Thanks, Gil

So it would be at the same domain, but independent of the main (root) web?

Well, not independent, under the ROOT.
quote:

So I could have two separate webs without having two different domains, correct?

You have a domain -> http://www.domain.com
You can have as many http://www.domain.com/directory/ as you want
quote:

I guess my only other inquiry would be to ask if there are any cons of using a subweb?

Well, just that they are all a part of the one domain.

Gil Harvey
The Host Factory
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_gail -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/13/2002 16:08:16)

quote:

quote:

I guess my only other inquiry would be to ask if there are any cons of using a subweb?

Well, just that they are all a part of the one domain.



I actually have a further inquiry. Is then a subweb sort of a mechanism for "house cleaning" for lack of better words? to keep things separate from one another and better organized?

I've just created an entire topic area at my business site which has actually nothing to do with my business. I could turn it into a subweb and give out that address. Those interested in my business would be directed to the web; those interested in the topic would be directed to the subweb ....and....unless I link them together, never the two would meet as far as visitors to either web are concerned.

Correct?

Root: www.gail.com
Sub: www.gail.com/topic

gail

Edited by - _gail on 05/13/2002 16:13:58



Gil -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/13/2002 16:52:31)

quote:

I actually have a further inquiry. Is then a subweb sort of a mechanism for "house cleaning" for lack of better words? to keep things separate from one another and better organized?

Organization would be the biggest reason. At least for me...
quote:


I've just created an entire topic area at my business site which has actually nothing to do with my business. I could turn it into a subweb and give out that address. Those interested in my business would be directed to the web; those interested in the topic would be directed to the subweb ....and....unless I link them together, never the two would meet as far as visitors to either web are concerned.
Correct?

Huh? There is only ONE Web Site, I don't follow the "never the two would meet" logic?
quote:


Root: www.gail.com
Sub: www.gail.com/topic


Yep, that's it...




Gil Harvey
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_gail -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/13/2002 17:14:24)

quote:

Huh? There is only ONE Web Site, I don't follow the "never the two would meet" logic?


I meant figuratively from a visitors standpoint, not literally.

< Yep, that's it... >

Thank goodness...and thanks again...for patience and all.

gail

Edited by - _gail on 05/13/2002 17:19:01



Fast Fred -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/13/2002 22:32:56)

Looks like we got off on a tangent? A subweb can have it's own theme. A subweb will also be isolated when using the Frontpage Search, both ways... You need an underscore infrom of a directory name to do this otherwise. A sub web can have different security and admin settings with FP 2002 extensions, like enabling or disabling anomous browsing and setting different rights for different users. When using a Sharepoint site, there are other maintenance advantages as well.




Fast Fred -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/13/2002 22:36:03)

quote:

If I convert a directory to a subweb, what effect will it have on my site?


Sorry, I am not familiar with the Spook Login in, but if you convert a folder to a subweb, there may be some issues with links that were not full, ../../link.htm. Themes may be affected. Navigation also. Search bots too.




Mark Krawec -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/15/2002 12:33:41)

A subweb can contain any number of directories. Each directory gets its own copy of the various configuration folders (such as the _vti_cnf folder) that hold information FP uses to apply themes, make include bots work, & so forth.

A site can have any number of subwebs. Each subweb is its own realm, whose security, theme, &c. settings can be different from those of the parent web.

Don't know whether subwebs can have their own subwebs.

MS (surreptitiously) recommends using subwebs as a workaround for the performance troubles you can run into when your web gets close to or exceeds 150 MB in size.

Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?



hzarabet -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/15/2002 12:37:25)

Here is some things I learned:

1. Converting Directory to SubWeb is easy
2. Converting BACK to Directory caused corruption
3. Pain in the neck. If you don't need it, don't do it


http://www.SigningsHotline.com lists EVERY upcoming athlete autograph appearance in the US and Canada



mmoore -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/15/2002 15:19:36)

You can have several sub-webs within a given sub-web, I'm not sure how many or how deep you can go with them, though (I've never gone more that two, though).




Thomas Brunt -> RE: What is the diff between a SUBWEB and a DIRECTORY (5/15/2002 16:42:22)

It was limited to 1 deep for 98 extensions. Since 2000, the claim is unlimited depth.

t



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