FrontPage vs Dreamweaver

FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (Full Version)

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Belinda -> FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 11:08:54)
We are going to hire a "security consultant" for a day to come in and check out our new intranet/extranet setup and while talking with him on the phone he strongly suggested we not use FrontPage (with server extensions). We have been using FP for a couple of years for our intranet but are now going outside the company. Does anyone know of or have any reasons why we should not use FP and switch to Dreamweaver. Also running IIS 5.0 on Win 2K. Thanks for any input.

Shirley -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 11:19:05)
What were his reasons for not using FP?? Shirley cmycat.com Money Tree Web Design Omaha Homes Online

Belinda -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 11:27:20)
From talking with the person who spoke with him, he seemed to have extranet security issues. The minute my co-worker mentioned extranet he threw up his hands and said "no-way, I don't even know why FrontPage is still around". Did not give us a warm and fuzzy. We are very comfortable with FP and do not really want the learning curve with DW unless there is a really good reason.

Gil -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 11:30:11)
Sounds like an over reaction - but any time the name "Microsoft" is mentioned a "security" pro will get a qyeasy felling in his/her stomach. ACS has a division that provides security for clients (like the White House, etc.) and they will not certify ANY MS server as secure! Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our Specialty Find a Web Professional

Belinda -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 11:41:19)
I think I will have to speak with him directly to understand his specific reasons. I just wanted to ask this forum if anyone here had any security problems as a result of using FrontPage. Like you said Gil he might just not like MS. Thanks for the info.

Gil -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 11:53:58)
quote: I think I will have to speak with him directly to understand his specific reasons. I just wanted to ask this forum if anyone here had any security problems as a result of using FrontPage. Like you said Gil he might just not like MS. Most of the "security types" I've met are pure UNIX and do not "like" MS. However, liking or not liking MS - the facts are MS is not secure and cannot be made "as" secure as Unix. Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our Specialty Find a Web Professional

EWD -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 15:13:16)
But what about FP extensions on a unix server? You don't have to have a MS server to be using FP and Extensions. Sounds like a bit of snobbery to me. I'd put him on the defensive and request his reasoning and supporting information. "My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green Edited by - EWD on 05/10/2002 15:14:29

Gil -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 15:23:47)
quote: But what about FP extensions on a unix server? You don't have to have a MS server to be using FP and Extensions. EWD, true FP extensions on a Unix/Apache server is 'more' secure than W2K/IIS but still a lot less secure than without the extensions quote: Sounds like a bit of snobbery to me. I'd put him on the defensive and request his reasoning and supporting information. That might be interesting. Our security guys would love to drop a 500+ page document (with test cases) on the desk to a client that requested "supporting information". I think the whole thing boils down to "How secure does it need to be?" A Extranet for a company that handles widgets, and has no accounting/personal information on the site would be fine using WIN/IIS. A bank on the other hand would not dream of it. Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our Specialty Find a Web Professional

Belinda -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 15:28:18)
Gil, what is it about the extensions that make a server so unsecure?

Gil -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 16:27:55)
Well, for starters the directories have to be "executable", meaning scripts, etc. can run. Without the FP ex. you normally only have one directory (CGI-BIN) as executable. With FP Ex. all directories are executable. Since the FrontPage Server Extensions run as "www" and the Web-server configuration file is owned and modifiable only by "root," the FrontPage Server Administrator must be manually run as "root" on the host computer to do this. However, for the Apache web server, MS supplies an optional patch to overcome this. With this patch, copies of the FrontPage Server Extensions CGI executables are not stored in each web but are stored in one centralized location. This helps, but... Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our Specialty Find a Web Professional

EWD -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 18:12:21)
Gil - No way am I going to try to match wits with you on this! You are just waaaay too well equipped and experienced. I am just so sensitive to FP snobs. I appreciate you passing the info along. "My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green

PBailey -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 18:44:23)
Gil, Thanks for the explanation of extensions on UNIX. That's my "learn something" for the day. Does that mean I can rest now Belinda, As Gil explained, UNIX is always more secure but a whole lot of the world runs on Microsoft. Based on the statement: quote: "no-way, I don't even know why FrontPage is still around". I think this is just snobbery. �Paula So much to learn......

Gil -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 20:07:24)
I definitely agree about the snobbery, I see it every day! And it should be obvious I'm not anti MS or anti Frontpage or I wouldn't have been here for the past few years But, I learned a long time ago that facts are just that "Facts" and no matter how much we might want them to be "snobbery" or "jealousy" or "elitism" it won't go away. In the beginning MS didn't take web security seriusly and has been playing catch up for years - the W2K products are a huge leap forward and I think there's hope they (MS) will some day be as secure as Unix/Apache. But for now I'll put my need to be secure data on Unix/Apache. BTW, there has been a great increase in WIN web servers, but still about 80% of the web runs on Apache... Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our Specialty Find a Web Professional

PBailey -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/10/2002 23:44:27)
Gil, quote: I'm not anti MS or anti Frontpage or I wouldn't have been here for the past few years I didn't mean to indicate you were. I was referring to the security expert. Sorry if that came across wrong. I totally agree with you in reference to Unix and security. I guess what bothers me about the anti-MS snobbery (which I felt was evident in the security guys comments)....is that, as you said, facts are facts and I think it is the obligation of "professionals" to understand the good and bad about both platforms and use each platform to its best advantage rather then write one or the other off. I think your comments: quote: I think the whole thing boils down to "How secure does it need to be?" A Extranet for a company that handles widgets, and has no accounting/personal information on the site would be fine using WIN/IIS. A bank on the other hand would not dream of it. say it all in this case. �Paula So much to learn...... Edited by - PBailey on 05/10/2002 23:47:52 Edited by - PBailey on 05/10/2002 23:52:10

Gil -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/11/2002 0:14:19)
Paula - I never considered you were directing your comments at me... Another thing to remember is the Unix/Apache combination was born from the original arpanet ( http://arbor.ucdavis.edu/resources/internet/history.html ), which was a military/government venture and security was a way of life and a necessity. Microsoft was born from a capitalist/for profit idea. The bleeding hearts will always be anti- any thing that is more financially successful than they are Gil Harvey The Host Factory Resellers are our Specialty Find a Web Professional

caywind -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/11/2002 1:15:30)
consider... intranet in MS with FP and IIS or whatever. can contain links out to extranet. extranet on linux with FP extensions. no links in to intranet. If they need intranet they need to be on-site or on a VPN. now the website can be hacked but it won't be easy, but your internal network can't be taken down. Use a firewall and make sure that it is configured properly. Many firewalls leave holes open in the default configuration also many FP features don't need the extensions. unfortunately all of the really good features do. Fight the Spam! http://awebmasters.net/antispam.htm

EWD -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/11/2002 1:18:00)
quote: The bleeding hearts will always be anti- any thing that is more financially successful than they are Gee, I have so much to be "anti" then! "My mind works like lightning. One brilliant flash and it is gone" - John W. Green

Belinda -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (5/13/2002 7:45:58)
Thank you all for your input. We have a 10:00 call today with this security specialist. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

srrobinson -> RE: FrontPage vs Dreamweaver (10/30/2005 9:44:41)
Ok, First of all, FrontPage is a very wierd program I have a huge web design client, it is a school system. I have to teach the teachers how to use FrontPage, I personally HATE FP, it is so disorganized, not to mention half the things the teachers want to do on their websites are not easily possible with Front Page, I end up teaching them how to use Dreamweaver. The schools Technology Department uses FP for their help desk email system, I do not like the extensions, because they are very finicky, we have IIS 5 but the head of the dept, wont even let anyone touch the FP extensions system, simply because it is very unstable, that was so hard, i designed the site in Dreamweaver, but I had to use FP to make the form BLEH! I use Dreamweaver for everything I do for them (soon to be the help desk email system in PHP as well!) and for everyone else. It has all the latest web standards and technologies in a well organized enviorment. Did i mention Frontpage is not standards compliant? Thats a big one, quite a few of my customers want that but FP cant give it, so yeah. Personally you guys can keep using FrontPage if it works for you I have nothing against that, but that insecurity thing is not "snobbery", many people in my profession are a little too professional to be snobby about their choices, its a little more experience based ;). PHP is prolly your best best for anykind of FP system u already have, it can prolly be replaced with even more functionality. That is if you are willing to learn the language. But its up to you. (Before I go, I am go to tell you that, I am a Mac person, but have used Windows for years, so I am what you would call a "hybrid" being :P DONT START WITH ME ABOUT BEING A MAC FANATIC! i get that far too much)

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