will you please critique my site? (Full Version)

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webbedfeet -> will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 10:24:00)

I have created a site for a candidate, whose campaign I am on. I have worked on it for a while, and it is up and running.
Could you please let me know what you think is good/bad about it?
I would love to add some flash to it, but that will take some more experience.
www.dollinger2002.com
Thanks in advance.
Webbedfeet



piquet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 11:21:48)

A few suggestions:

1)Everything is too spaced out and I have to scroller laterally on my browser (800 x 600)

2)There should be space between the photo and the text. The easier ways are either to split the cell that the text is in and leave the new cell empty as a spacer.

3)Large text never looks good as a title. Use a graphic.

4)Make the text fit under the title.

5)Have the menu show when the page is opened, maybe using a horizontal menu under the title and using smaller text.

6)Dispense with the gimmicks, e.g. the rotating bullets, bottom marquee etc

As I said just a few comments, I hope this doesnīt sound too negative but I think a Senate candidate deserves a profession looking website.



Look after #1 and donīt step in #2.



piquet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 11:23:11)

Sorry, forgot to complete suggestion #2. The other option is to use cell padding.

Look after #1 and donīt step in #2.



webbedfeet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 12:26:03)

Thank you. I will work on this. I may not have mentioned this, but I have only done websites in Publisher, and I am a complete newbie to FrontPage. I really want to make this site look completely professional. Part of my problem is that I don't want it to be boring at the same time. I want the people who see the site to be impressed and to smile at it.
I will start to work on your suggestions. Let me know if you have any more.
Thanks again.
webbedfeet



piquet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 13:06:09)

OK if you insist!!

7) I would never use bold text for the main information

8)You have used Bell and Broadway fonts which many viewer may not have installed. Therefore they wonīt see the text in the same way you do. I would stick to Arial, MS Sans Serif, Verdana and Helvetica.

Look after #1 and donīt step in #2.



Charles W Davis -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 13:17:04)

Courtney,

Help your candidate and don't add the flash.

I counted five different fonts. I suggest no more that three, two would be better.

Many folks do not have the Harlow Solid Italic on their computers and will see the browsers default font instead. I used it in my newsletter Anthem Compendium, but converted it to a graphic. http://www.anthemwebs.com/Documents/anthem_compendium020607.htm

The scrolling message marquee near the bottom moves in a direction opposite of what most readers of the English language are used to reading. If your are not going to remove it as piquet suggested, at least move it the opposite direction. Besides, It doesn't work in NN 6.2 nor Opera 6 browsers.

At the bottom of the pages, have a link to the top of the page, or a "back" link. Especially, the bio page.

On the Contact Us page, the form at the bottom should have more than one address line, just in case someone at 26233 Avenida del los Arboles, Winnemuka, NV 89122-6712 wants you to contact them. It will probably work in the one box, but why make people wonder?

The Contribute page is exceptionally gaudy. Here again a cohesive design of text (without the Harlow Solid Italic) and stationary graphics will induce more giving.



Enjoy! It's your endeavor!
Chuck, the male ladybug. http://www.anthemwebs.com
http://www.moderncabinetmaking.com



mar0364 -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 13:21:33)

I agree with the earlier comments.

I might also add:

If you develop with a 640 x 480 in mind you will not have a problem with anything bigger. I would decrease the size of the picture and move the menu up so that when people arrive at the site they see navigation options.

Download time is a little slow.

Try 2 limit your fonts to 2 or 3 types on a page.

ps: Goodluck to you and your guy.

The hero is commonly the simplest and obscurest of men.
-Henry David Thoreau





Mike54 -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 13:27:13)

I agree with piquets comments. Also although I know it's a much less used browser the site is quite messed up in NN (4.76).
The bullets from the menu are all over the place and the candidates image is right next to the header among other things. It's better in Opera though things look a little jammed up.
Just a quick look for now, I'll look harder when I get home.

ah reckon, tharfo'e ah's, ah reckon.




_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 14:52:45)

I'd like to share some thoughts about your site, particularly from the perspective of it serving, in effect, as campaign literature. My comments are based on running three of my own successful campaigns in a large county, among the most political in the U.S.

First of all...the goal of a campaign besides getting elected, imho, is to get your message out...simply and elegantly to people who, in general, are weary of politicians and political rhetoric. Many already think most elected officials have too much to say.

With this thought in mind, I honestly think your site is too "noisy." To reduce the noise, here are some things to consider:

- don't even have a page that states "under construction." It's trite and not even necessary because you do have information there, even if you intend to add more later. Besides, constituents generally prefer answers when the seek them.

- if you use the flags in the background, decrease the layer opacity a lot more. Let there be a gentle hint of the flag, not in-your-face over and over again.

- you have too much blinking and moving stuff. Very distracting.

- the photo is too large - reduce it and consider adding a drop shadow to give it more dimension; I like to ever so slightly tilt a photo forward, so the individual is learning more towards the viewer (ie. tilt it very slightly to the left, then recrop).

- other than the text used for copy (which would not have to be boldfaced if the background was reduced in intensity), in general, I think your text is too large.

- reduce the number of typefaces - perhaps a size variation for one or two for titles and headline; one, easy to read typeface for text.

Finally, if someone visits the Senator's site and stays less than a minute, you should structure it so they leave it with some sort of message. A strong, believable phrase or two along the top, representing the Senator's main positions, would help.

Hope this helps,

gail



Edited by - _gail on 06/12/2002 15:10:19

Edited by - _gail on 06/12/2002 15:14:59



webbedfeet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 15:11:12)

Ok, I am in tears now. lol.
How do I make the text images?
How do I make the pages 600x800?
what else is there? I am taking out all of the images and graphics, I will work on the background, I'm trying to fix the title. This sucks.
Thanks all!
webbedfeet



_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 15:27:05)

quote:

Ok, I am in tears now.
This sucks.



No,webbedfeet, p l e a s e don't be discouraged! We've all been through some tough critiques. Sure it hurts but utlimately, our work is better.

I played with web design for three years, feeling pretty good about it, before finding Outfront. Some of the feedback I've received has at times knocked the wind out of me, but besides knowing comments were offered in good faith, I knew they were true. I've had to literally start "all over" in my thinking, designing and the understanding that I have so much more to learn. It's been worth the pain. I think, at least I hope, I'm a better web designer for the input and advice.

Another goal of a campaign is to win, yes?!

I can assure you, that many of the people here, who have helped people like me more than they will ever know, have offered some real winning suggestions.

And there's lots more help available.


Also, congratulations for getting involved in a political campaign. Too many sit around their coffee tables and complain but do nothing...you are among the few who get involved and really can make a difference.

Keep the faith...

gail



Edited by - _gail on 06/12/2002 16:01:09



abbeyvet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 16:49:09)

Hi,

I would echo what Gail said - don't dispair, you will get there and lots of hlp is available here. It isn't as easy as it looks is it?

I am not going to add any comments about the site itself except to say that I agree with all of what was said above.

Here are a few suggestions for where to go next though.

1. You need to do something drastic about the size of your images. The headshot on the home page is a MASSIVE image which you have resized to fit but that does absolutely nothing about the file size. I downloaded it, resized it (which you can do in any graphics program, I used Image COmposer but anything will do this) and saved it. It's now one tenth its original size and you can grab it here:
http://www.inkkdesign.com/of/headshot.jpg

2. Plan your site on paper bdfore you start to redo anything. Map out where you want evrything to go. There is some advice here on doing that, perhaps some of the other stuff in that section would help too:
http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/design/layout.htm

3. It is the mark of the beginner to use lots of large images, large text and moving stuff - "Hey Look what I can do!! Kewl!!" - and that is not a critisism, we were all there. But it is obvious that it is important to you that the site look professional, so just ditch them, and keep it really simple. Make EVERYTHING smaller, less bold and less comin' at you and the difference will be amazing.

4. I know you probably love your flags in the background. They don't work. I hate to say this but making them more subtle will not work either. They need to go. The important thing with a site like this isreadibility, in the end it is absolutely most important that potential voters actually read the stuff and anything on any kind of a patterened or tiles background is hard to read.

You can get a 'mood' in other ways - use of colour and images in the layout would do it for example.

I did a site a while back that had a US flag theme, for people assisting those looking for US visas. I am not posting it as a pattern for what yours should be, its a completely different thing, but just to show how use of colour can create an effect while the text is still on simple backgrounds. It's here if you would like a look: http://www.nvacireland.com/index.html

The only other thaing I would add is .....tables. Learn to use them. Practice. They will transform what you do.

And again I say it, don't dispair, this will be a great site when it is done!






Katherine

++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.inkkdesign.com

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.



Mike54 -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/12/2002 17:19:37)

Hey Webbed,

Please, don't get discouraged. As _gail said, "We've all been through some tough critiques". There's a bunch of great people here and believe me, you'll find lots of help.
As Katherine said, "The only other thaing I would add is .....tables. Learn to use them. Practice. They will transform what you do."

Take this to heart, it's very important.

Good Luck

PS to Katherine - are you secretly from Carolina?

ah reckon, tharfo'e ah's, ah reckon.




webbedfeet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/13/2002 16:37:16)

Well, I want to thank you all so much. I took your suggestions and completely revamped the site. I hope you will take a look and give it a second once over, lol.
I would love to get a whole new critique from here. Let me know if it still sucks haha.
Just kidding.
Thank you all again,
webbed feet



Charles W Davis -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/13/2002 17:24:13)

webbedfeet,

Much improved!

I would remove the table height attribute: "height="1444">" Let 'er float. It creates too much white (blue) space near all of the pages except the biography.htm page.

I think it is a bit improper to say that the good Senator has "enacted" a law. He can author, sponsor and guide it through the process, the the legislature "enacts."
quote:
Dollinger also enacted a law that increases penalties for trespassing on railroad property


Large blocks of text are usually not read by folks browsing these sites. That which reads:
quote:
He is currently a member of the Board of Directors of the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra and has served as a member of the Board of Trustees of Saint Bernard's Institute, a local Catholic graduate school of theology, a member of the Board and vice-president of the Catholic Family Center, a board member of the National Kidney Foundation of Upstate New York, Inc. and the Epilepsy Association of Greater Rochester, Inc.


Would probably be better presented in this manner:
quote:
He is currently a member of the Board of Directors of the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra and has served as:
  • a member of the Board of Trustees of Saint Bernard's Institute,
  • a local Catholic graduate school of theology,
  • a member of the Board and vice-president of the Catholic Family Center,
  • a board member of the National Kidney Foundation of Upstate New York, Inc. and the Epilepsy Association of Greater Rochester, Inc.


Everything worked well in NN 6.2, Opera 6, and IE 6.

Keep it up!

Enjoy! It's your endeavor!
Chuck, the male ladybug. http://www.anthemwebs.com
http://www.moderncabinetmaking.com



_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/13/2002 17:45:29)

quote:

Well, I want to thank you all so much. I took your suggestions and completely revamped the site.



No, webbed feet, it doesn't suck!

What a difference. Am I ever impressed! How do *you* like it now?!

I'm sure there will be additional suggestions. Here are a few of mine:

I still think some of the text, including graphical text, is a bit too large.

Some of the links can still be made a bit smaller. Verdana and arial fonts are pretty easy to read at 10, even 8 point size.

Your pages far exceed my 17" monitor. I'm not the best one to advise how to fix this, but hopefully someone will.

I also note on the bio page there is some text missing (and the title name and sentence name run together:

"SENATOR RICHARD A. DOLLINGER Richard A. Dollinger is a lifelon ....."

Keep up the good work. You're a fast learner!

gail




PBailey -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/14/2002 0:04:21)

Hi Webbedfeet,

I've been following along and you have gotton some great suggestions. The new site is definitly headed in the right direction. I agree with Gail, I think the text (heading and link) needs to be smaller. I also think the picture could still be smaller.

One think I did notice. In the news section, of the scanned letters I could only really read on easily and some of them were crooked.

Don't get discouraged. The honest help you get on Ourfront will really be helpful and pretty soon you'll be giving it out too.


 Paula
So much to learn......



PBailey -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/14/2002 0:10:05)

Gail,
quote:
I like to ever so slightly tilt a photo forward, so the individual is learning more towards the viewer (ie. tilt it very slightly to the left, then recrop).


Thanks for that suggestion. Didn't know how to do that. I ran right over to PSP and gave it a try. Pretty neat!

 Paula
So much to learn......



webbedfeet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/14/2002 9:22:04)

Ok, I will fix the bio, take out the height, tilt the pic, make the title and links smaller. I can let viewers know that they can contact us for a copy of any of the news, but the scanned images is all we have right now. We are getting someone to transcribe them.
then they will look very good.
The whole thing about the Senator enacting, I didnt write it. I also didnt like it or want it to be writen like that, but I dont get much say in those matters.
There's only so much you can do!
Design a website? maybe...Teach someone to write grammatically correct? doubt it!
let's see how much I can do today...
much thanks,
Webbedfeet



_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/14/2002 10:39:19)

quote:

Gail,
quote:
I like to ever so slightly tilt a photo forward, so the individual is learning more towards the viewer (ie. tilt it very slightly to the left, then recrop).


Thanks for that suggestion. Pretty neat!



Yes, Paula, it's actually a very effective techniuqe. It somehow adds dimension, perhaps a little "life," to a portrait photo.

As an aside, I'm not the source of the idea. It was taught to me by my dad, who was a professional still photographer for one of the major studios when the movie industry was in it's heyday. At one stage in his career he was photographer to many of the really big "stars." It was his job to make them look good in print.

gail




_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/14/2002 10:46:16)

webbedfeet

Here's another photo tip to consider. As a general rule, it is visually more effective to have a person facing into the center of a page, rather than looking or "walking" off a page as you do here:

http://www.dollinger2002.com/biography.htm

The second photo (b&w) where the Senator appears to be in session, should be flipped. Or move flush-left instead of flush-right.

I haven't had time to look at all the pix on your site so there may be additional ones to consider.

gail



Edited by - _gail on 06/14/2002 11:00:38



webbedfeet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/14/2002 14:29:55)

ok, I made all of those changes, and tried to line up all of the tables to give a symetrical look to it. I made the links smaller, cropped the pic, fliped the photo, and fixed the bio. (Im not allow to improve (haha) the grammer.)
Another round of suggestions anyone? I'm certainly open to them!
'I wanna thank you for 'ur support ahn mah campai'n...'
webbedfeet



_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/16/2002 9:59:28)

A few more visual suggestions:

Home page

- Flip bottom b&w photo (media interview) so senator is looking in, not out, of page


Homepage and elsewhere

- Still consider making the left sidebar links about two sizes smaller. You don't even need all that space there between each link. Did you ever try using the Shift-Enter keys together for spacing? Gives you a single line space.

- personal preference comment: I'm not a fan of using FrontPage's bevel feature, particularly not for photos. If you right-click an image in FrontPage and select "picture properties" the appearance tab will let you place a border around an image (border thickness - I usually select 1, sometimes 2). This feature is particularly useful with photos if you don't otherwise tweak them with a photo editing program.

You won't be able to undo beveled images once they've been saved or overwritten but you can crop them. You can also reinsert new copies of the originals (just give slightly different names than in the current web, then delete the old ones).

quote:
Another round of suggestions anyone? I'm certainly open to them!'I wanna thank you for 'ur support ahn mah campai'n...'


In sincerity, webbedfeet, I've had no intention of helping your campaign (if I did I'd have LOTs to say about the copy and I haven't even read 80% of it). My intention was to share some of the things I've learned, a lot of it right here at Outfront.

Are there more things you can do to improve your site? Yup! But imho, the transformation of your site from what it was to where it is now is quite remarkable.

Congratulations!

gail





mar0364 -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/16/2002 20:34:14)

You have come light years with this project. Looks great!




piquet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/17/2002 14:07:02)

This is a good example of how the Outfront Forums can help educate people to build better websites. I have certainly learned a few things which I have used in my websites.
To webbedfeet:
I hope you continue to use this forum and look at other websites. In time you will look back on this site and criticise it yourself as you develop more and more skills.

For now, just 3 more suggestions.
It would look better if the tables started and finished at the same level even if that means leaving space in the tables. Secondly, move the navigation bar at the bottom up to meet the tables and delete the space that this leaves at the bottom of the site. Finally, I still think that the title width should be the same as the combined width of the two tables and the title should be on a graphic (maybe with a small photo to the left of the title) rather than being just text.


Look after #1 and donīt step in #2.



Charles W Davis -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/17/2002 17:59:31)

Courtney,

I understand that you can't change the "grammer," so I sent the aged Senator a note questioning the following statement on the Biography page:
quote:
In 1192, he was elected to represent the 54th Senate District ,

300 years before Columbus' celebrated event!

Enjoy! It's your endeavor!
Chuck, the male ladybug. http://www.anthemwebs.com
http://www.moderncabinetmaking.com



webbedfeet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/18/2002 12:14:37)

Well, thanks for the continued suggestions. My progress is a direct result of your help and time in giving advice.
I am currently having a problem that I hope someone may be able to help with.
I had the navigation links at the top of the page looking nice, but they weren't aligning well, and if I had to change one I had to change all. I was doing this because the standard navigation bar is hard to work with itself.
Well, I have switched to that, but if you look at the site, it looks fine on the home page. That is what I want it to do for every page, have the tahoma 10 font, red brackets and red (maroon) font for the page that the viewer is currently on. The problem is that if you go to the Biography or any other page, all of the links are red, and it looks really yucky. I have tried to format the text in the table properties and everything. I am not sure what I am missing.
The FrontPage help stuff says you can edit the navigation bar like any normal text, but it won't let me. I would pick a plan but classy button for them, but I can only seem to set that in the themes, and I am not using one.
whew!
well, if any of you have any suggestions, I would be very greatful, and as always, any other suggestions would be great.
BTW, I changed the 1192, they didnt get mad that I took the creative liscense on that one, lol.
also, they are saying they like the site.
wooohooo!
Thanks,
Webbedfeet



_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/20/2002 16:19:30)

Keeps getting better webbedfeet!

However check those main links on the left side of each page. Last time I checked, four out of six links were not working.

Two more suggestions:

Can you add more padding to the tables? That way the text won't hit against the borders.

Right-click in a table, then select Table Properties. Then increase the cell padding in the "layout" area. Play with the number a bit until it looks right to you.

Also, the list of contributors is very long, in large part due to some of the titles wrapping down to the next line. By shrinking the length of that list, pages will have less of that massive blank blue area.

See if either of these work for you.

Highlight all contributor text and change the font to Arial 10 point (size 2).

Also give Verdana 8 point (size 1) at try. It's a small but readable font, and boldfaces well where needed.

gail




webbedfeet -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/20/2002 16:41:59)

Thanks! I just added some more articles for the news section, and I caught your post, so I fixed those things. I can't help the supporters list, as it is hopefully going to be long. If you have any suggestions of another way to have to go on every page that would be great. Also, we have a quote that we want to use, and I am looking for a good way to incorporate that. Just now, I am thinking maybe the quote should go there, and add a new page for supporters. hmmm.
Well, thanks again. I look forward to your criticism, suggestions, and pointers!

Quack!



_gail -> RE: will you please critique my site? (6/20/2002 16:58:47)

quote:
I can't help the supporters list, as it is hopefully going to be long. If you have any suggestions of another way to have to go on every page that would be great.


I'm not saying too long as in numbers, but in page length. My suggestion was shorten the *length* by decreasing the point size of the type.

My preference would be to add a new page for supporters with a link on each page to it. Others here may have a different opinion but I think some of your pages are too long, and it is primarily due to the length of the supporters list.

Hmmm, I note as I'm typing...you've already changed the point size. Looks a lot better. Why not make the "and growing..." a hyperlink to a new page where additional supporters will be listed. Just don't let the list be the determining factor which controls each page and thus diminishes the design.

quote:
Just now, I am thinking maybe the quote should go there, and add a new page for supporters. hmmm.


Keep thinking .... ;-)

quote:
Quack!


Meow!



Edited by - _gail on 06/20/2002 16:59:20



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