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c1sissy
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MSSQL Server!? - 9/2/2002 9:12:21
Now I have a really big question here.
Last night I finally found a server that could be installed on the xp home computer, I think.
I' m not sure if I did this correctly. I should have printed the page with the directions, however, everytime I went into print preview to see how many pages there were for this, the pages just kept loading, past 300 when I finally clicked out of it.
If I' m not sure of the installation, is this possilble to uninstall then reinstall?
this is where I found the download, http://www.asp.net/
I sure could use some advice here on this. thanks in advance for any help that could be possibly given on this subject.
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Doug G
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/2/2002 13:11:46
MSSQL Server is Microsoft' s high-end database server, not a web server. The evaluation version of SQL Server is a 300+mb download. You need a server operating system to install MS SQL Server, you can' t install it on XP Home.
MSDE is a free SQL Server " engine" minus any client tools to manage and administer the database. It' s a 30+ mb download and can be installed on all versions of windows. It' s designed primarily for testing, development, and single user use.
www.asp.net is dedicated to .NET software, Microsoft' s newest version of server software. .NET requires the .NET framework to be installed on your computer, which is the backend software that does the work for your pages. Then you can use tools like Visual Studio NET, WebMatrix, C#, VBNet and such to develop .NET web applications. These apps will need a .NET server to run, and there aren' t too many ISP' s offering .NET hosting yet.
Traditional ASP requires a web server that can process Active Server Pages (asp). IIS is the usual web server for asp and is included in W2K Pro and Server/XP Pro. There are also versions of PWS (Personal Web Server) available free from MS for W95/98/98SE/NT4 and known to work with ME. You can also use Apache/ChiliSoft but ChiliSoft is kind of pricey (a few hundred bucks). Note the absence of XP Home on this list.
There are a couple web servers on the asp.net site, but neither are asp capable servers (i.e., you can' t use them to develop and test traditional asp on your computer). Other than the " kludge" patch that Spooky found in another thread, I don' t know of any way to get an asp enabled web server going on XP Home, sorry.
If you have another old computer with W98 and a network, you could use pws on that computer to provide a web server and work on your XP Home computer. The web server doesn' t have to be on the same box.
HTH,
< Message edited by Doug G -- 9/1/2002 1:14:46 PM >
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/2/2002 16:35:52
LLL - Take a look here for the explanation of the different SQL Server editions.
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinfo/planning/SQLResKChooseEd.asp
Fear not, if you are getting the SQL Server Standard Edition you will also get the SQL Server Personal Edition that can install on all versions of windows, and you will also get SQL Server Desktop Edition aka MSDE that also can install on all versions of windows. MSSQL Server Standard and Enterprise can only be installed on a Server OS. Other editions can be installed on any windows os. In my mind SQL Server is the server OS component, all the other SQL Server editions are client tools. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
c1sissy, I' m sorry I guess I don' t understand what you are looking for. SQL Server is a database and is the database that Web Matrix is designed to use as a backend db, but SQL Server is not a web server. What exactly are you considering downloading?
< Message edited by Doug G -- 9/1/2002 4:38:20 PM >
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c1sissy
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/3/2002 5:38:15
Doug
all the asp and asp.net books that I have been skiming, and the one that I purchased state that you need either pws (which microsoft is killing shortly) or IIS, which according to what I have read online and been told in here you can' t run on a xp home computer.
Now, If I don' t have these things, HOW am I supposed to learn the asp and run the practice pages.?
I' m supposed to have the .net framework on my computer. however each time I do the practice page for some reason I get a page can' t be displayed page. this is totoally driving me nuts. I have been spending so much time on thsi and getting no where.
Then I emailed this professor who revied MS asp.net book, and he is telling me that I can put an iis4 on this computer. Am I loosing it about now????? YUP!!!!!!!!!!!
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c1sissy
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/3/2002 5:41:34
Doug, one more thing, I tried to uninstall the MSSQL server, then my printer wouldn' t work. go figure!! If I dont' need this, I would uninstall and not use it. No sense having anything on the computer I don' t need. Now, if I am supposed to not have it. how to get the printer to work without it???
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As decreed by Jesper 5-24-2003.
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c1sissy
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/3/2002 5:53:37
Doug:
I removed the MSSQL from my computer.
Now, since I' m trying to learn the asp then the asp.net, can this be done through front page 2002? Is it possible to create these pages in here?
I just don' t understand how I' m supposed to learn this if I dont have on my comptuer what the books are telling me that I need.
The pws supposedly isn' t for the xphome edition. IIS isn' t either, so what do you do? there has to be something that can be done to learn the asp and asp.net on this computer or I' m wasting my time here with these books.
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Deb-aka-c4Ksissy
high panjandurum and alpha female of the silverback tribe
As decreed by Jesper 5-24-2003.
The only stupid question is... the one that is never asked!!
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Doug G
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/3/2002 18:05:49
Hi c1sissy,
I do not know of a asp-enabled web server that will run on XP Home. MS intentionally removed IIS from XP Home. The link Spooky posted above may be one way to get IIS on your computer, but it wouldn' t be my recommendation as I wrote earlier. Or if this professor knows how to safely install IIS4 on your computer, you could try that. Again, it' s not something I would do myself, nor have I heard of anyone installing IIS4 on XP Home, but it' s a big world. :)
You must have an asp web server to test asp pages locally. You can' t test asp pages with Frontpage alone. FP can create & edit html pages from a disk based web locally, but asp pages won' t work from a disk based web.
We got to www.asp.net because they have a couple web servers available to download. After some research yesterday, it appears neither of these free web servers will support asp pages so they won' t work for you.
If you have another computer there, and if they are on a network (like via a dsl router or similar), you can install PWS on a different computer, and use it for a testing server from your XP Home computer. If you don' t already have a network, though, this avenue will be quite a bit of work too.
There is no easy solution for you that I' m aware of. XP Home isn' t designed for use by software and web developers.
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c1sissy
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/3/2002 19:09:41
Doug:
You have no idea how much I appreciate your help and also your research.
I have the sams teach yourself asp in 21 days, according to this book, even if I did find a way to install IIS4, asp doesn' t work on that anyhow.
How about the Web Matrix? What is your opnion on this program? (lol, I had printed their whole tutorial, not realizing how large of a print that would be) So I had hoped that I' d be able to use this somehow.
I have a feeling that even though this is for xp home, according to their page of what computer systems etc could use this.
I was so excited that I had this xp home. Had I known that pro would have been better, maybe we would have been able to get that one. But then at the time I was only into learning html, now I want to learn this and it appears that I' m going to have a tough road ahead of me. Unfortunately I don' t ahve the 200.00 for the up grade (which I have also seen online for about 184 and up.) I checked ebay for an upgrade to pro, but those guys just seem to care about out bidding each other,no matter what the cost!.
I have had a touch of the flue the past 4 days or so.... so going through all of this has been pretty difficult, lol, spins and all. I' m a die hard and hope to come up with something.
I seriously trust what you are saying about not puting anything on here in regards to the IIS and other things.
What do you know about Halcyon and Chili! Software?
Anyhow, thanks again, I just jumped in to see where I stand in all of this, now its back to resting again.
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Deb-aka-c4Ksissy
high panjandurum and alpha female of the silverback tribe
As decreed by Jesper 5-24-2003.
The only stupid question is... the one that is never asked!!
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http://positioniseverything.net/
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Doug G
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/3/2002 20:58:21
Have another cup of hot chicken soup, does wonders! I hope you are feeling better soon.
To clarify, asp is not the same thing as asp.NET
ASP was introduced by Microsoft in 1996 along with NT4.0 which included IIS3.0. At that time, asp was an add-on to IIS.
IIS is Internet Information Server, Microsoft' s name for their web server. Other web servers from MS are PWS (Personal Web Server, or Peer Web Services on NT4 workstation). The only decent asp-enabled PWS is PWS4.0 which is on the W98 CD and/or a CD called the NT Option Pack. The NT Option pack can be downloaded but it' s 80MB or so. Versions of PWS4 and IIS4 that will work on W95, W98, W98 SE, NT4 Workstation and NT4 Server are on the Option Pack CD. Rumor has it this version will generally work with Windows ME, but I' ve never seen a report that you can install the NT Option Pack server on XP Home.
Here' s how an asp page works: First, the concept of an asp page is that one page holds two different sections of code, some that will run on the server and some html for the client. What happens is the server loads an asp page and starts processing it from top to bottom. Anything inside <% %> is code for the server and runs there. Everything else is considered HTML and is sent to the browser. Although there are other languages available, most server-side asp code is written in Microsoft' s VBScript language (Visual Basic Scripting Edition).
Here is why you need an asp-enabled web server to test your pages. An ASP page must go through a special asp dll program file on the server to process the code in the page. Your web browser can' t handle the server-side code, which is why a disk-based web won' t run asp pages properly. When a browser requests an asp page, and that special asp dll looks at the page and figures out what code to run on the server and what HTML should be sent to the browser.
IIS4, which comes with NT4.0 does asp fine, I have a couple NT4 servers here for testing. So if there was a way to get IIS4 loaded on XP Home it would probably work. The reason I don' t recommend this kind of installation is because I' ve spent a long time in tech support, and have a built-in distrust of tinkering with operating system files. It may be perfectly safe to install IIS4 or IIS5 on your XP Home computer but I haven' t done it myself and I am wary of other wierd impossible to track down bugs unrelated to IIS because of different versions of some files.
asp.NET is somewhat similar to asp, but a completely different set of server side programs is necessary to process an asp.NET page. These programs on the server are collectively known as the .NET Framework. If the NET Framework is on your computer, you must have added it by Windows Update, a 20mb or so download. I don' t think XP is distributed with the NET framework preinstalled. asp.NET pages are identified by an .aspx file extension.
On my XP Pro computer I can work in either environment, traditional asp and/or .NET. If I request an .asp page, IIS will send the page through the asp.dll to process it. If I request an .aspx page, IIS will send the page to the NET Framework to process it.
WebMatrix is a nifty development tool, but is a development tool for Have another cup of hot chicken soup, does wonders! I hope you are feeling better soon.
< Message edited by Doug G -- 9/2/2002 8:59:12 PM >
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RE: MSSQL Server!? (A Note to Spooky) - 9/3/2002 21:01:44
Hi Spooky, I spent too long I guess writing the above post, and when I clicked OK I got " please enter something in the body blah blah" . I clicked go back, cut & pasted all my text out & back in, posted, and the text was all doubled. I don' t think I pasted it in twice.
Looked to me like a session timeout feature.
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c1sissy
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/3/2002 21:41:28
Doug:
I' m going to take your letter a bit at a time here, btw, how' d you know I made home made chicken soup for dinner tonight??? Seriously I did!! lol
hmm maybe feeling a bit perkier, or could it have been that chocolate covered banana that my son made? (he saw the mix when food shopping and wanted to make them, mmmmm good.) any how,back to the frustration at hand.
I started with asp because somewhere in here when I first started asking about these things, I believe it was in the thread about the books, it was recomended that I learn asp first to learn the backround of asp. I thought that was a good idea, so off to purchase, at 40.00 a pop, sams teach yourself in 21 days. lol, I haven' t even gotten past the first lesson yet 2 weeks later.!!!
re:NT option pack, been there you can' t load it into the xp home. zip again. lol.
I understand the part about asp being a code seperate from html. But that the one acts on the server and html on the to the clients browser, etc... got that part. ( I think) From what I have been reading.
.net came with my computer.(also recently did a format, and it was there after the format, so....) I have the xp home on an 80 gig hard drive hp computer. This was a pretty good computer that hp sent us. (long story how I got this one from having a 40 gig w/windows me first.) One thing I will say is that the first one we had sooooo many probs with, I' d never add something to a computer that no one would think would work out. Our first one came with programs that didn' t work at all. Hence the begining of a long battle that lasted almost a year with hp.(programing probs were from there end, it took almost a year to prove it, like I had to, but...) Too long to go into except that I won, and ended up with this computer that I have now. I dont know if you are familar with hp' s or not, but this is a 7965. When we turned it on, the .net was already here, in administrative tools. I, at the time didn' t know what it was for though. I think that I' m learning some though. there are some other things in there that I' m not familar with, something called component services, and ODBC is also in there.(open data base connecttion?) I have read a bit about the component services, but don' t know that much about them. Microsoft.net framework configuration and Microsoft.net wizzards.
So, if I have the .net on my computer then I should be learning the asp.net? I shouldn' t be messing with asp?
I' d send you some soup, but it might be cold when it gets there. Matza ball soup. mmmmm , while I was making it I was singing Matza ball soup to the tune of Macho man.
Doug, to me you are the overlord of asp knowledge at this moment, (I hope this doesnt offend bobby, lol) I value the input that you have given me, and it has kept me from venturing into things that I shouldn' t put on here. This professor might have one opnion, but a tech guy stands above the professor. Thanks again for all the help. I dont know which way I' m headed, but I do want to learn this, and btw, I do only have one computer. I keep forgeting to let you know that part.
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Deb-aka-c4Ksissy
high panjandurum and alpha female of the silverback tribe
As decreed by Jesper 5-24-2003.
The only stupid question is... the one that is never asked!!
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http://fmsforum.com
http://positioniseverything.net/
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Oztrades
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RE: MSSQL Server!? ASP.NET - 9/18/2002 6:09:43
Hi...for my 2 cents worth i dont know if c1sissy intends operating her own server or not but from all the research i have done in australia ASP.NET servers are still quite expensive thru webhosts. I feel she may have fallen into the trap of seeing the tutorial and realising it was all done with wizards or a clear and concise tutorial (sic). If only life was as simple. One begs the questions. Will your site be heavily database driven c1sissy. If so i suggest you employ some good programmers ( aka Spooky) to do your work because there are no shortcuts here when it comes to database.
However i am constantly amazed at how effective frontpage can actually be if you are prepared to experiment. I have found several methods of posting or database manipulation that even i dont know how happened but thru mistakes. The only problem seems to be is that i have had to have my frontpage extensions re-installed a couple of times due to me possibly blowing a few fuses but they work still after i have had that done.
If spooky or Outfront were prepared to offer a concise tutorial for frontpage as Microsoft has for its ASP.NET matrix then would the world be any wiser?
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Doug G
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/18/2002 12:26:43
fwiw, .NET was added to my ISP' s servers, no additional charge.
They partner with an Australian domain registrar too!
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adavies
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RE: RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/18/2002 15:07:40
Does XP Professional come with an asp enabled web server that would reside on my desktop PC and could be used to test asp pages before I publish them to my web site?
thanks
Ashley
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Oztrades
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RE: RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/19/2002 10:52:18
Very interesting Doug G,
Any possibility of dropping me a line on who your webhost is as i was told by mine that ASP.NET is avail if only i upgrade to their PREMIER service ( at a PREMIER price) which i would be most appreciative of. I was informed that they had no plans to instil it upon the 7 other different levels they already have.
Regards
Dave
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Doug G
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 9/20/2002 0:48:23
Ashley, XP Pro includes IIS 5.1 which you can load from the XP CD. Open Control Panel - Add Remove Programs - Add Remove Windows Components and locate the IIS stuff.
Dave, www.crystaltech.com
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Gil
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 2/27/2003 20:55:07
Good info Andrew - thanks
But of course, you' d still be stuck with a lousy OS [:p]
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awasson
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RE: MSSQL Server!? - 2/28/2003 2:25:15
Yes Gil, I must admit there are some downsides to the Home version of XP.
If it were up to me there would only be one version of XP (Pro) and there would be no confusion about how to hook up a server to the OS. I have a license of XP home sitting in the box it came in bundled with my last computer purchase.
Fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on how my wallet looks [:j]) I have XP Pro and Win2K Pro as well as a slew of older MS OS' s. I really like XP Pro though. If your into building websites with all the available technologies it is stable.
I' ve got IIS 5.1 running with:
FrontPage Extensions - Of Course
Dot.Net framework - ASP.Net
MSDE - A version of SQL Server
PHP - Scripting Language
Perl - CGI Scripting
ColdFusion - .cfm pages
JRun - Java Server Pages
MySQL - Database
It will not crash... I hope? It' s been stable for better than a year. I started with the beta' s of Pro and now have SP1. The pre SP1 was ok but I could crash programs if I wasn' t carefull.
There I go rambling again, dang it!
See ya,
Andrew
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It will set up by default to port:8000 and I think it only works on the local network. ie: 