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swoosh
Posts: 1438
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From: Beaver Falls, PA
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Border Collapse Fix - 9/4/2002 13:08:38
For those who use FP 2002 and want to get rid of the border-collapse code that FP keeps inserting, the following steps will allow you to create tables anytime and modify them in anyway without FP getting in the way.
Table>>Insert Table (set border size to 0 (zero). Then within the same dialog box click on Style>>Format>>Border and choose " none" from the Style dropdown box. Select OK, OK then check the box labeled " Set as default for new tables" . Right Click on the Table and choose Table Properties and select " show both cells and table borders" .
This will apply to all new tables that you create from now on. You can add borders to your tables by right clicking and specify the border size. You can even modify your table by using the mouse in normal view without FP putting in the border collapse property to it.
< Message edited by Swoosh -- 9/3/2002 1:12:45 PM >
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Swoooosh
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swoosh
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 9/5/2002 0:16:22
I just recently found out about it erin, I tried it and it works like a charm. I can now create any type of table layout in FP without the border collapse code getting in the way.
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mzwizard
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 9/5/2002 13:18:58
Ok..i just did it and I can see what it did...but tell my why i wanted it to change that. I' m sure there is a reason that will make perfect sense to me, and will be something that was driving me nuts...but either i haven' t had the problem or didn' t know what it was called.
Thanks in advance for my " un-educatedness" update!
Lorian
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 9/6/2002 10:05:12
Some observations and related questions:
You can only tweak these settings if CSS 2.0 positioning is turned on: Page Options > Compatibility > Available Technologies
Some time ago it was recommended that I turn off (uncheck) CSS 2.0 positioning to decrease problems which cause browser compatibility. I did.
Is this advice correct and, if so, what are the implications turning CSS 2 back on in order to avoid " border-collapse" code? Is there other bad code we should expect though we' ve the one?"
The settings recommended by Swoosh seem to remain the default when I go back and turn off css2.
thanks, gail
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 11/7/2002 10:06:36
quote:
ORIGINAL: swoosh
For those who use FP 2002 and want to get rid of the border-collapse code that FP keeps inserting, the following steps will allow you to create tables anytime and modify them in anyway without FP getting in the way.
I' d like to revive this thread again. I' m still curious about the answer to the question asked by mzwizard.
I followed what swoosh recommended when he first posted the tip but border collapse is baaaaaack. I keep seeing border-collapse in my code. I know I made some changes to the compatibility settings a few weeks ago, so that probably did it.
What is border collapse anyway? And why do I not want it?
thanks, gail
< Message edited by _gail -- 11/7/2002 11:08:58 AM >
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 11/7/2002 13:31:21
FP applies border-collapse as an inline style, thats all it is, a border style.
The opposite to border-collapse is border-seperate, so if you use the first the borders of adjacent cells are shared by the adjacent cells, if you use the latter the borders of adjacent cells are seperated from each other.
There is a very detailed page about it all here:
http://macedition.com/cb/resources/tableCSStest.html
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Seventh
Posts: 1235
Joined: 8/4/2002
From: The Motor City
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 11/7/2002 14:13:45
abbeyvet,
I like the second part of that title (cb). I' m thinking of giving one of my partners that nickname.[:j]
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/1/2003 15:44:26
I couldn' t get the border collapse fix to work either and am manually removing it, which is a major pain.
If anyone has an alternative suggestion I would love to hear about it.
It will, I believe cause problems in NN, though I have not ever left it in long enough to see what those are.
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/1/2003 20:25:45
quote:
When you manually remove it, does it double the visual size of your table borders?!
I never use table borders, so it is not a problem for me, but I tried it out and yes, it does.
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_gail
Posts: 2876
From: So FL
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/1/2003 20:37:14
quote:
ORIGINAL: abbeyvet
I never use table borders, so it is not a problem for me, but I tried it out and yes, it does.
HUH?!?!?!
Why not, may I ask?! Do you only use gifs?
gail
< Message edited by _gail -- 1/1/2003 8:37:47 PM >
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Kitka
Posts: 2520
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Australia
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/1/2003 21:33:45
quote:
It will, I believe cause problems in NN, though I have not ever left it in long enough to see what those are.
Does anyone know what problems leaving the border-collapse coding in might cause for browsers other than IE??
I' m really interested to know, as I have given up removing the coding and now am just " going with the flow" - especially as over 90% of visitors seem to be using IE5+. I' ve looked at my pages in Netscape 6 and while the borders are thicker, everything else " seems" okay.
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/2/2003 10:05:10
quote:
HUH?!?!?!
Why not, may I ask?! Do you only use gifs?
I don' t use table borders because I can never make them work in Netscape.
Sometimes I use gifs, but sometimes instead I nest tables. I know there are disadvantages to that too, but at least it works in all browsers. Which I use depends on what I am trying to do.
So, say I want a white table with a black border.
1. I make a table, single cell, cell padding & spacing at zero, background black.
2. In that table I put another table, cell padding whatever I want, cell spacing at 1, cell backgrounds white.
That will give you a 1 pixel black ' border' around each cell in the nested table.
Sometimes I just want a border around the entire nested table, but not around the individual cells in it. Procedure is the same except this time the black table has cell padding set to 1, and the nested table has cell spacing at zero and a white bg on the entire table.
Obviously replace black and white above with whatever colours you like.
Try it. 
< Message edited by abbeyvet -- 1/2/2003 3:07:56 PM >
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Kitka
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/2/2003 12:27:07
quote:
...if I only remember to do it. It only works while FP is open after you uncheck the box. After you close FrontPage, it must be reset next time you open the program.
Yikes!  How awful... I don' t know how I did it, but mine is permanently unchecked, and has been ever since I first setup FP.
Now you come to mention it - I have unchecked that box on a colleague' s computer and come back later to find it checked again, and he swore he had not done it. So I just did some tests on his computer, unchecking it the box, making a table, saving the page then closing FP. And every darned time I reopen FP, it' s back!  I even tried selecting all the pages and folders in the web before unchecking the box, but still no luck.
I' m going to have to apologise for doubting his word now 
I really have no idea how I managed to set mine correctly - maybe you have to do it when first setting up a web or when you first install FP?? At least I know it is possible.
quote:
I still don' t know what the ID' s are for, or if this code is " bad" to keep or if it should be deleted.
Table IDs are for people who use spreadsheets like Excel to import data from web pages. I don' t think it is in any way " bad" , just bulks out the code unnecessarily.
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hhammash
Posts: 1064
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/19/2003 7:02:38
Hi,
Nice idea Abbeyvet.
What effect would this have on Netscape?
Hisham
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abbeyvet
Posts: 5095
From: Kilkenny Ireland
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RE: Border Collapse Fix - 1/19/2003 9:21:45
quote:
What effect would this have on Netscape?
It will give you a border - no matter what browser you use.
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