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_gail -> Help with homework... (9/13/2002 11:49:00)

Someone suggested I ask for help here with homework for my Web Programming course. So here goes...

This is my first ever website created entirely in notepad. [:' (] It took me only a couple of minutes. [:D] Dislike immensely going about it in this manner but realize it is the only way I' m going to finally learn html/xhtml and be able to confront issues such as FrontPage' s extraneous code and browser compatibility

http://www.gtbconsulting.com/ircc1/index.htm


A couple of things you should know:

  • You don’t always get your answer in class.

  • This is a request for a code, not a site, review. I' m not seeking a critique of the design or content. The sole goal of this class assignment is to learn and use xhtml correctly.

  • We have been encouraged to use frequent comments throughout.

  • The project is not due to next Thursday so it is incomplete at this time. There are links that do not work, code yet to be added, etc.

  • Most importantly, though tempted, I am not asking anyone to tell me how to do something if I' ve made a mistake. But I' d sure like to know what the mistake is and try figure out how to fix it myself.


In Outfront forums and tutorials, I may have previously read the answers to some questions. However they have not been cemented in my mind. Some of the info will just not sink in until you apply them to a real project.

Here are my first questions related to the project:

  • The <p> and <br> tags seem to have the same effect on the spacing of text. What is the difference between and when do you know to use one or the other?

  • We' ve been told that xhtml will not be as forgiving as html if tags are left opened. Am I correct in closing the </p> and similar tags?

  • As someone who came to web creation approaching it as a designer, not a programmer, I' ve always thought of <h1>, <h2>, etc. as simply a way to format the text size. If I understand the instructor correctly, these headings also are interpreted by browsers for their hierarchical importance.

    I' ve also been told to only use the <h1> tag once on any given page.

    If all this is correct, when do I determine to use the <h> tag as opposed to <font size>?

    That' s about it for now. Thank you for any help you are willing to provide.

    gail



    • swoosh -> RE: Help with homework... (9/13/2002 12:06:14)

    quote:

    The <p> and <br> tags seem to have the same effect on the spacing of text. What is the difference between and when do you know to use one or the other?


    The <br> tag will only insert single space, while the <p> tag will double space



    bobby -> RE: Help with homework... (9/13/2002 12:53:27)

    quote:

    We' ve been told that xhtml will not be as forgiving as html if tags are left opened. Am I correct in closing the </p> and similar tags?


    That' s correct... and tags like <img src...> should now have a / added at the end. Since they don' t need a closing tag, they close themselves.

    Other examples would be <hr> and <br> - they would now be <hr /> and <br /> (note the space between the tag and the /)

    quote:


    As someone who came to web creation approaching it as a designer, not a programmer, I' ve always thought of <h1>, <h2>, etc. as simply a way to format the text size. If I understand the instructor correctly, these headings also are interpreted by browsers for their hierarchical importance.

    I' ve also been told to only use the <h1> tag once on any given page.

    If all this is correct, when do I determine to use the <h> tag as opposed to <font size>?

    I haven' t heard this yet... but it makes sense. I tend to use <h> tags when I want something called out specifically as a header, title, or for SEO (since spiders index the content of <h> tags with more relevance than <p>)

    BTW - I know you' re not looking for a design critique... but that one looks really good!



    Reflect -> RE: Help with homework... (9/13/2002 14:01:57)

    quote:

    The <p> and <br> tags seem to have the same effect on the spacing of text. What is the difference between and when do you know to use one or the other?


    <br> is a line element. <p> is a block level element.

    br will produce a single return, p will produce a double line return (as far as spacing margins go).

    quote:

    As someone who came to web creation approaching it as a designer, not a programmer, I' ve always thought of <h1>, <h2>, etc. as simply a way to format the text size. If I understand the instructor correctly, these headings also are interpreted by browsers for their hierarchical importance.


    Correct. AS far as text size goes play with CSS and you can manipulate not only the text size but...spacing. I am just starting to grasp the second but I have been shown example where an <h1> appears just like a normal <p> or line of text also the space to the next line is identical also. Here is an older link that shows flow and usage for headers...

    http://www.w3.org/WAI/wcag-curric/sam33-0.htm

    Brian




    erinatkins -> RE: Help with homework... (9/13/2002 14:26:25)

    Gail,

    I know the questioned are answered. [:D][:D]

    I was impressed with you first ever website created entirely in notepad. I have only used notepad for edits.


    Thanks
    Erin



    abbeyvet -> RE: Help with homework... (9/13/2002 14:47:04)

    I know you didn' t ask for a site critique but it looks good! [;)]

    quote:

    The sole goal of this class assignment is to learn and use xhtml correctly.


    Is it XHTML? I see you are using the DTD for 4.01 transitional but you mention xhtml above.

    Because for either 4.01 strict or XHTML all the style stuff should be out of there and in a style sheet, with no desprecated tags such as the font tag in your code.

    If transitional was the standard you were told to write to they will be acceptable, though it is a pity to learn to write HTML with the deprecated tags in and no CSS and then effectively unlearn a lot of it to later replace it with a newer standard.



    _gail -> RE: RE: Help with homework... (9/13/2002 15:37:17)

    Thanks for the compliments but mostly for the very, very useful help. I' ll have some followup questions but they must wait for another day.

    I do want to respond to this:

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: abbeyvet

    Is it XHTML? I see you are using the DTD for 4.01 transitional but you mention xhtml above.

    Because for either 4.01 strict or XHTML all the style stuff should be out of there and in a style sheet, with no desprecated tags such as the font tag in your code.

    If transitional was the standard you were told to write to they will be acceptable, though it is a pity to learn to write HTML with the deprecated tags in and no CSS and then effectively unlearn a lot of it to later replace it with a newer standard.



    WOAH, Katherine, this is a biggie! Think you just prevented me from stepping into deep, er, transitionals.

    There goes the graphic artist again tugging, if not prevailing, on me. I' m still concentrating on how things look not on the code.

    Yours truly added the formatting tags in because I didn' t like the way the <h1>, etc. look. Don' t think I' m supposed to be adding all the formatting code.

    Since we' re not getting into CSS until next week, I' m going to get clarification tonight. As to the DTD, my fault entirely...gotta check if prof even wants it there.

    gail


    PS Thanks Erin for suggesting I do this.





    _gail -> RE: Help with homework... (9/14/2002 9:43:49)

    Two Questions:

    1) Part of my assignment is that " child pages link up to the home page."

    Is that different than linking to the home page?

    My notes are sketchy, my memory sketchy-er and can' t find it in the textbook. [:o] Not sure if the child pages must be in a different directory to do this and think I may have to begin the link by using ../


    2) Rec' d two worksheets last night. Each had two different approaches to using quotes. For example:

    - cellpadding=" 8" on one worksheet,

    - cellpadding=' 8' on the other.

    I' m assuming using either double or single quotes is fine. Are they? What if you mix the two by mistake in a tag such as:

    - <table border= " 0" cellpadding=' 8' cellspacing=' 4" width= " 95%" >



    Replies:

    Swoosh, Reflect - Thanks for the replies on the <br> and <p> tags. Together, the info provided me with an one of those wonderful " ahhh-haaa" moments.

    Bobby - Thanks, to, for the info about <hr /> and <br />. I knew about the later but not the former. The instructor called the h1 tag the " most significant."

    Yup, Erin - all in notepad. Now Gil and I are beginning to have more in common. [:D]

    quote:

    a pity to learn to write HTML with the deprecated tags in and no CSS and then effectively unlearn a lot of it to later replace it with a newer standard.


    A pity but true. Last night the instructor went over html text formatting tags. He said we can use them on this particular class assignment. Next week we begin studying css.

    Guess I can keep the transitional DTD for now. When I inquired he said to use whichever is in the textbook. It uses both! [:j]

    btw, When I asked the instructor if he received the email I sent him last week, he said that for two weeks he hasn' t checked the email of the address he gave us to contact him. It' s the one listed at the url where our course schedule and reading and project assignments are listed. <sigh>[>:]

    Don' t mean to put the prof down. He really is quite good!

    THANKS! gail


    Fyi:

    My textbook: Internet and World Wide Web - How to Program, 2nd ed., Deitel, Deitel and Nieta, Prentice Hall.

    1400+ pages, small print [:' (]









    abbeyvet -> RE: Help with homework... (9/14/2002 9:56:51)

    quote:

    child pages link up to the home page


    I think that is simply poor use of English.

    I would imagine you can just ignore the word ' up' .

    The use of the ' up' is a tautology, like the use of the word ' surrounding' after the word ' circumstances' which is my pet hate - listen out for it on CNN, Sky News etc. Very frequent.

    quote:

    I' m assuming using either double or single quotes is fine.


    " is correct.
    ' is incorrect.




    _gail -> RE: RE: Help with homework... (9/14/2002 10:02:11)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: abbeyvet

    quote:

    child pages link up to the home page


    I think that is simply poor use of English.

    I would image you can just ignore the word ' up' .


    And this thingamajig ../ !?

    I' ve seen it used but have no idea where or when or why.

    quote:



    quote:

    I' m assuming using either double or single quotes is fine.


    " is correct.
    ' is incorrect.




    Crimeny! [:' (]



    abbeyvet -> RE: Help with homework... (9/14/2002 10:27:14)

    [:(][:(][:(]

    I wrote a big long reply about ' ../' etc. then accidently closed the main of window and lost it all. WHAAAAHH!!!!

    I just can' t write it all again now.


    Basically " ../page.htm" in a tag is a relative url. It says" Go up one level in the directory structure and find a file called page.htm"

    Just as " ../../page.htm" would say " Go up two levels in the directory structure and find a file called page.htm"

    And " ../stuff/page.html" would say " Go up one level, find a directory there called ' stuff' and a file in it called ' page.html' .

    Make sense?





    _gail -> RE: RE: Help with homework... (9/14/2002 10:55:37)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: abbeyvet

    [:(][:(][:(]

    I wrote a big long reply about ' ../' etc. then accidently closed the main of window and lost it all. WHAAAAHH!!!!


    Oooooh. I' m thorry! Been there, done that too.

    Hey, another use for that handly little notepad. I' ve begun typing long replies there first. Just have to remember to " save" once and a while.



    quote:

    Make sense?



    Not immediately but it will. Guess I need to take a little break to make sure I don' t overdo it. [;)] [:p]

    thanks for the info!

    gail



    c1sissy -> RE: Help with homework... (9/16/2002 20:22:12)

    Gail:

    I know you aren' t looking for a site critique. However, this looks great!! I knew that you could do it!!

    Hand coding isnt that bad is it???!! I actually like it myself. Though of coures the fp does make it faster.

    What is even stranger for me, is that I actually knew the answers to your questions!!! Learn something new every day!! As I was reading the answers that everyone was giving you I thought to myself wow! I am learning things!!

    I know that you will do really well with this. You have a wonderful talent!! Keep it up!!!!



    _gail -> RE: Help with homework... (9/18/2002 7:54:31)

    Requesting some direction. I' ll take any hints, please.

    http://www.gtbconsulting.com/ircc1/index.htm

    This site for the purpose of my class project is complete with one exception. Can' t get the top links to center correctly as they were originally. I' ve spent more time looking at code on this single item than most " normal" people would do.

    I have no idea why this has happened on all four pages. I did a little cutting and pasting of code from one page to another so no doubt a tag or something was inadvertently deleted.

    I have an earlier backup copy of the site which could easily be updated and used. Don' t want to do that because it really wouldn' t help me understand what went wrong.

    Much appreciated, gail



    abbeyvet -> RE: Help with homework... (9/18/2002 8:09:01)

    I think the problem is not the table - which is identical on each page.

    It is just above the table.

    On the home page this is what is immediately above it:

    <body>

    On the errant pages this is what is there:

    <body>

    <body link=" AO4078" > <body vlink=" 666699" > <body alink=" CC0099' >

    That is four opening body tags!! You can only have one. I think the browser is confused!

    I am not going to tell you how you should correct that unless you ask [:j][:D]

    <whisper>If it were me I would look at a few body tags in other pages, or even make a page in FP, play with the link properties and see what it does to the body tags.</whisper>



    erinatkins -> RE: Help with homework... (9/18/2002 8:30:12)

    Gail,

    I would take Abbeyvets hint.

    Another one - The BGCOLOR, TEXT, LINK, ALINK, and VLINK attributes specify the colours to be used for the background, text, links, active links, and visited links respectively. Which I sure you know.

    Your site is coming along great.


    Erin



    _gail -> RE: RE: Help with homework... (9/18/2002 8:31:26)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: abbeyvet

    I think the browser is confused!

    I am not going to tell you how you should correct that unless you ask [:j][:D]


    More thanthe browser is confused!

    Won' t be able to work on this ' til later but I' d really like to try to figure this out on my own. If I can' t, I' ll be back, for shure.

    Thanks for the hints!

    gail



    _gail -> RE: Help with homework... (9/18/2002 10:42:02)

    Well?!

    Hope this " proud as a peacock" gif isn' t premature. If so, it' s still okay to knock me out of my nest.

    Thanks, all you really have been great. btw, did I tell you I have another project or two coming up before the end of the semester?! [;)]

    gail


    [image]http://www.frontpagewebmaster.com/upfiles/1556/Cz79796.gif[/image]



    erinatkins -> RE: Help with homework... (9/18/2002 11:48:52)

    Gail,

    Good job. I knew you could do it.

    Make sure your homework buddies do not go on vacation during this time. LOL

    Erin



    _gail -> RE: RE: Help with homework... (9/18/2002 13:38:22)

    I probably shouldn' t do this to myself but I just ran the index page through an html validator.


    [:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:' (][:(][:' (][:' (][:o][:' (][:' (]

    gail



    _gail -> RE: Help with homework...HTML Tidy Online (9/21/2002 15:57:48)

    I was caught off guard when I ran my project through an html validator the other day. But then I discovered " HTML Tidy Online" and find it much easier to understand and locate errors.

    Question: Is Tidy Online effective and reliable? Are the results (ie finding errors in code) the same as running a site through a validator such as the W3C Validation Service?

    http://infohound.net/tidy/

    I have a week more to play with this since my class was cancelled last night because a mysterious goo was found it a classroom that gave a student a rash.

    http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/friday/martin_stlucie_d3a88a81625e51e6000d.html

    Never a dull moment in South Florida.

    thanks, gail



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