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abrogard
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Australia
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Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/22/2002 23:14:08
Hi...
I am very new to Frontpage but I like using it. Until I took a look at the hard drive.
It seems to create many extra files and directories.
It seems to copy every file in the site into one directory, too.
I ' published' to my web site - which is right here on my local machine, an Apache site - and I find it has created these ' private' , ' vti_cnf' and ' vti_pvt' folders right there in my Apache web site root (i.e. htdocs) AND there' s a ' vti_cnf' folder in EVERY existing directory off the root, too.
And each one of those ' vti_cnf' folders contains a copy of the contents of the parent folder.
I don' t like this proliferation of folders and files and no explanation, no options. Is it okay? I can see why you might do it in a development area but why stick it in my Apache site?
Is it my fault because when it complained there was ' no web' at the Apache dir I pointed it to, I created a web there?
Too confusing. What the hell is a ' web' anyway? Why do we need it? A site is, should be, just a directory (folder) heirarchy with the necessary files in it.
Why does Frontpage want more? Why does Frontpage insist on (unknownst to me) puttting more in my existing sites?
Am I using it wrong? What' s the consensus.. is it good?
Should I ' publish' my work to my server (remember, right here on this machine) or should I just copy files over?
I also want to ask about frontpage extensions re apache but I' ll start another thread for that.
regards,
abrogard.
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Charles W Davis
Posts: 1725
Joined: 3/7/2002
From: Henderson Nevada USA
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RE: Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/23/2002 0:47:46
Arthur,
I don' t understand why you have so many of the private folders. Only one of each unique name is required per web site.
FrontPage requires information that it has access to, whether the web resides on your computer or a server. Those files are where " private" infomation is stored that the browsing world has no need to know. For instance, if you create a response form, the program stores the email address that you wish the response sent to.
" vti" is the initials of the company that originally developed FrontPage; Vermeer Technologies, Inc.
I suggest that you spend some time reading the invaluable tutorials on this web site. Most of your problems will just vaporize!
_____________________________
Enjoy! It' s your endeavor!
http://www.anthemwebs.com
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abrogard
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Australia
Status: offline
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RE: Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/23/2002 5:08:48
Well thankyou Charles... I' ll certainly look into the tutorial stuff if I decide to stay with it....
In Apache your web root is /htdocs and below it I have these dirs and here' s what FP has done with them:
htdocs - private, vticnf,vtipvt
catley vticnf
cgibin vticnf
data vticnf
dave vticnf docs - vticnf
docs vticnf
esl - private, vticnf,vtipvt
images vticnf
logs - no, nothing
manual - vticnf and in every one of 6 subfolders
oldrubbish vticnf
publisher vticnf and every one of 4 subfolders
templates vticnf
timestamps - nothing
webcam vticnf
html nothing
It has put a vticnf in every one that has something in it. If the directory was empty it hasn' t done it.
Only images and esl are referenced by the root index.html - but frontpage has spewed it' s stuff all over everything.
I say again why? I can see why it might do this in the dir where I' m building the site but once I move the site to my server I want it clean. What business has frontpage got there? Front Page is operative at ' run time' , so to speak? If I uninstall FrontPage my site will crash?
RTFM. O.k.
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Charles W Davis
Posts: 1725
Joined: 3/7/2002
From: Henderson Nevada USA
Status: offline
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RE: Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/23/2002 8:29:58
Arthur,
quote:
I' ll certainly look into the tutorial stuff if I decide to stay with it.
I suggest that you look into it first. To make a decision without that knowledge is just plain ... never mind!
quote:
but once I move the site to my server I want it clean.
I suggest you take a look at many of the sites created with FrontPage. They will be clean! Without the authors user name and password, those files are never seen. They only serve the purpose for which they were meant, to make the job of providing function on your site easier. By-the-way, with the server extensions, one publishes the site to the server. One doesn' t " move the site."
Certainly you can create a web site using Frontpage without the server extensions. But why? That is like buying your first car, and throwing away the differential because it isn' t clean.
< Message edited by Charles W Davis -- 10/23/2002 8:32:11 AM >
_____________________________
Enjoy! It' s your endeavor!
http://www.anthemwebs.com
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abrogard
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Australia
Status: offline
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RE: Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/24/2002 9:50:29
Hi guys and thankyou for your help.
All that unannounced stuff spun me out a bit, I guess. I can overlook it, or work with it, or work round.
Yes, Charles, I did ' publish' - I think I mentioned that. But I was saying maybe I won' t ' publish' again. It' s on my own machine, you know, the server. I' ll just copy over and leave all that crap behind.
And that' s a question I should have asked but didn' t: will the site work if you just copy the files over? I guess I' ll find out. I guess it won' t. I guess there' s going to be a great dependancy on FP. O.K. on my localhost server but if I publish to, for instance, ozemail.com.au where I' ve got a freebie site, will it work there without the fp folder? Will it work with it?
I can test all this. I shouldn' t be asking you. I' m just using up time and space.
Mate, I' m a real dork, it' s true, but it' s not quite as bad as that: you can junk a piece of software before you read the manual, of course you can.
How about database progs that don' t offer relational databases? you wouldn' t go any further if that' s what you wanted.
How about comms progs that didn' t offer pgp encryption and that' s what you wanted?
How about (closer to home) an html authoring prog without gui ?
How about an OS without standalone pc security? (How about attempting to read the user manuals for an OS!!!)
And to really bring it home: How about a web authoring prog that you can' t use any of the bells and whistles from... because they require a seperate package that you can' t install on your server?
I am, of course, referring to frontpage extensions which question I mentioned and said I' d start a new thread for. Well, I did.. and there' s been no responses.. I don' t think it' s on... I don' t think it can be done...
and so I' ll junk FP... why keep it?
regards...
and thanks again... it' s really good to get responses you know...
abrogard.
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Justjay
Posts: 697
From: Montreal, QC Canada
Status: offline
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RE: Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/24/2002 10:05:56
Your decision to make - in my opinion a poor decision, but yours nonetheless.
Perhaps you may not be aware of this but FPSE were going to do the following for you...
- Update hyperlinks when you change file names or move files (you will now have to go through and do this on your own)
- Ensure that your pages are not out of date (you will have to go through and do this on your own)
- Publish pages that were changed by keeping track of which pages were changed (you will have to go through and do this on your own)
- Process your forms (now you will have to find, modify, upload and CHMOD scripts]
- Allow you to use INCLUDES without having to handcode
Why keep it? It is a powerful tool - you just need to take sometime out and learn how to use it....and be patient with the learning process.
quote:
Yes, Charles, I did ' publish' - I think I mentioned that. But I was saying maybe I won' t ' publish' again. It' s on my own machine, you know, the server. I' ll just copy over and leave all that crap behind. - Some people find the term " publish" confusing and refer to tranferring files via FTP (File Transfer Protocol) as publishing - when in reference to FP this is not the case, and in fact this practice is more in line with the term of " uploading." Charles just wanted to make sure that FTP was not causing you any problems. Clarification is always a good thing.
quote:
....will the site work if you just copy the files over? - the best way to answer this is NO. Sure there may be some cases (I can not think of one) where you could - but it is NOT a smart move. The rest of your paragraph - I am not clear on what you are communicating....
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abrogard
Posts: 27
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Australia
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RE: Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/24/2002 19:48:21
Well thankyou Jay. I' ll take note of what you' ve said. It seems the FPE do more than I thought they did - I took them to be merely a collection of add-ins. An extension set of controls.
There seem to be many people who don' t like FP and many who do. And those of you that do speak very well about the product. I think I' ll take your advice and persevere a little.
BUT: this is what my final paragraph meant: Can I have FPSE with an Apache server on win2kpro?
That was my other question I put up on a different thread - and on another forum. So far I' ve only got a couple of ' don' t knows' and a flat ' no' .
I' m also on an apache mail list and I' ve asked them.
I had fpse when I had visual studio.net loaded up but the server never worked and it hassled my machine so I uninstalled the whole thing, IIS, Vis Studio and all. And now my machine offers no option to get back FPSE without loading up IIS again.
And, of course, microsoft says nothing about whether those extensions will be available to the Apache server if I did do that - and if the IIS server didn' t conflict with the Apache server.
and, yes, I prefer to have the apache... I' m heading in the direction of unix..
regards,
abrogard.
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Justjay
Posts: 697
From: Montreal, QC Canada
Status: offline
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RE: Is it Good? (creates folders... copies files...) - 10/24/2002 21:03:52
I can' t reply to everything you said right now...but I will tell you this...YES you can have FPSE with W2K pro and Apache....FPSE and Apache work great together...and as far as they are concerned there just needs to be an OS....
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